| Press for Fall of 1913 in ruffians |
Movement
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Well, you are quite right, I have created an English monster.
> >
> > If you are interested, I will be ordering Kiel to support Denmark to hold.
> > This should free you to defend Paris and Belgium. Or you could take Kiel.
> >
> > At this point I have no further designs on German centers, and indeed
> > cherish you as a buffer against England!
> >
> > Chris
>
> Chris;
> As a safety measure, I will no longer be telling anyone what I plan to do
> with my
> units. However, I won't try to suicide out to you OR Christian (if that's any
> hint).
>
> Paul
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Gents,
Whew. Cal, you had me sweating there! but now that the retreat is in, I
have some thoughts, and possibly a plan.
Thoughts:
Does it seem likely to anyone else that I will lose Kiel this season? I
can't call Paul anymore -- will he suicide out against me, or will he defend
what he has?
Does anyone know if Christian believes that R/T is solid, weakening, or
anything? Any intell on that front? Could we create some mis-information
there?
Plans:
Ok, the first thing I would like to do, is get a turkish fleet past the boot
of Italy, while maintaining my sanity. I would like to offer to you, Meef,
the lovely resort of Tunis! Yes, Tunis, blessed coastal province beloved of
all sea-going Europeans. How do we get you there?
Meef, dig this set of orders: (sorry, I've been talking to a lot of swing
people lately -- I am teaching some workshops in Denver next weekend, and
have been promoting it.)
F Ionian -> Emed
F Albania -> Greece
A Serbia S F Albania -> Greece
F Tyn -> GoL
F Aegean S F Greece -> Ionian
F Greece -> Ionian
F Smy -> Emed
F Bul -> Gre
F Bla S A Rum
Ok, so what happens?
Ionian is dislodged, and retreats to Naples
Greece becomes Austrian (for the moment)
Turkey has fleets in Bul, Black, Smy, Aeg, and Ionian, and can remove either
Smy or Bla.
Now, all of this is predicated on the Idea that I will lose Kiel. I am
trying to keep the front numbers open.
Next year, we can push TWO turkish fleets towards the atlantic, with Ion ->
Tun/Aeg->Ion, and then in the fall Tun -> Naf/ Ion -> Tun.
This redresses the SC imbalance, and actually gives us a fleet advantage in
the Westmed, if I also have two fleets there.
Now, I am leaving myself open to a massive stab here -- F ionian to
Adriadic/ Aegean -> Ionian simply ruins my whole year. So, in return, I am
asking for Greece in advance. You will have three units on it, and I will
be unable to hold it, without your continuing goodwill. You did say you
were willing to be patient. In the worst case, I create another stalemate
situation. If I, for example, supported Ionian to hold, I would be leaving
myself open to England, and all my fleets would be forced to try to hold
Turkey back.
At or about this point, Cal should be building his Second northern fleet.
England shouldn't be able to handle the pressure from both sides of his
lines.
Ok -- that was plan one.
Plan 2, in the north
Kiel supports Denmark to hold. (Shudder) If I tell Paul I am doing this,
and then do it, I win some cred with him (not that I could get anywhere near
positive again), AND it slows england down.
Meef, you're the only one who hasn't lied to Paul yet. Have you any
relations with him at all?
Cal, how do you want to DMZ? I'd like to see you back in Prussia, rather
than Silesia, and Sev rather than Ukraine. I am content to hold in Bud and
Ser, as well. Galicia to Vienna? Bohemia? Let me know.
Ok, long post. Lets plan plans!
Chris
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
>I think Turkey is really going to stab Russia this time. Do you have any
>info on that score?
None what so ever, sorry. I wouldn't dare ask either since he would let
Russia know I am conspiring behind his back...
/Christian
Broadcast message from England in
'ruffians':
Sorry if I have been away a few days.
Sunday 30 Jan 2000 at 1.21 am Ludvig Christian _Zackarias_ DREYER was born !!
He was a average 3650 gram and 52 centimeters tall. Mom and boy both well!
all the best
/The Swedish Chris, also a father now. Will they meet in WDC 47? :)
Broadcast message from Austria in 'ruffians':
HOORAY! Happy Birthday Ludvig!
World dip Con 47? How about world dip Con 20? Two 10 year old champs go at
it hammer and tongs! ;)
Christian, what is your snail mail address?
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
My thoughts:
> Gents,
>
> Whew. Cal, you had me sweating there! but now that the retreat is in, I
> have some thoughts, and possibly a plan.
>
> Thoughts:
>
> Does it seem likely to anyone else that I will lose Kiel this season? I
> can't call Paul anymore -- will he suicide out against me, or
> will he defend
> what he has?
>
> Does anyone know if Christian believes that R/T is solid, weakening, or
> anything? Any intell on that front? Could we create some mis-information
> there?
I have not told Christian anything about r/t. I do not think we need to
reply to Chris on this question.
>
> Plans:
>
> Ok, the first thing I would like to do, is get a turkish fleet
> past the boot
> of Italy, while maintaining my sanity. I would like to offer to
> you, Meef,
> the lovely resort of Tunis! Yes, Tunis, blessed coastal province
> beloved of
> all sea-going Europeans. How do we get you there?
>
> Meef, dig this set of orders: (sorry, I've been talking to a lot of swing
> people lately -- I am teaching some workshops in Denver next weekend, and
> have been promoting it.)
>
> F Ionian -> Emed
> F Albania -> Greece
> A Serbia S F Albania -> Greece
> F Tyn -> GoL
>
> F Aegean S F Greece -> Ionian
> F Greece -> Ionian
> F Smy -> Emed
> F Bul -> Gre
> F Bla S A Rum
>
> Ok, so what happens?
>
> Ionian is dislodged, and retreats to Naples
> Greece becomes Austrian (for the moment)
> Turkey has fleets in Bul, Black, Smy, Aeg, and Ionian, and can
> remove either
> Smy or Bla.
>
I do not like the idea of Turkey giving up a unit so Austria will not have
to. I want to keep Greece AND take possession of Ion this year, at least
take possession of eas.
> Now, all of this is predicated on the Idea that I will lose Kiel. I am
> trying to keep the front numbers open.
>
> Next year, we can push TWO turkish fleets towards the atlantic,
> with Ion ->
> Tun/Aeg->Ion, and then in the fall Tun -> Naf/ Ion -> Tun.
>
I DO NOT like the idea of having 2 turkish fleets in the med and only having
4 units for a while. I would be too vulnerable.
> This redresses the SC imbalance, and actually gives us a fleet
> advantage in
> the Westmed, if I also have two fleets there.
>
> Now, I am leaving myself open to a massive stab here -- F ionian to
> Adriadic/ Aegean -> Ionian simply ruins my whole year. So, in
> return, I am
> asking for Greece in advance. You will have three units on it, and I will
> be unable to hold it, without your continuing goodwill. You did say you
> were willing to be patient. In the worst case, I create another stalemate
> situation. If I, for example, supported Ionian to hold, I would
> be leaving
> myself open to England, and all my fleets would be forced to try to hold
> Turkey back.
I am willing to be patient but not willing to hang my butt out in the wind
trusting Chris.
>
>
> At or about this point, Cal should be building his Second northern fleet.
> England shouldn't be able to handle the pressure from both sides of his
> lines.
>
> Ok -- that was plan one.
>
> Plan 2, in the north
>
> Kiel supports Denmark to hold. (Shudder) If I tell Paul I am doing this,
> and then do it, I win some cred with him (not that I could get
> anywhere near
> positive again), AND it slows england down.
>
> Meef, you're the only one who hasn't lied to Paul yet. Have you any
> relations with him at all?
>
I will talk to Paul but do not know what I can gain for r/t out of it.
> Cal, how do you want to DMZ? I'd like to see you back in Prussia, rather
> than Silesia, and Sev rather than Ukraine. I am content to hold
> in Bud and
> Ser, as well. Galicia to Vienna? Bohemia? Let me know.
>
> Ok, long post. Lets plan plans!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
Thoughts?
Meef
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Gents? I think we need to chat!
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Hi guys, just want to let you both know I'm REAL busy right now and it's
unlikely to improve until tonight. I'll respond to your letter then, Chris.
I know how antsy you get when I don't write.
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Just a quick note til later. I agree with you and I think you should tell
Chris exactly what you told me. He's trying to get his security at the cost
of yours and you don't like it. Tell him what you told me and I'll back it
up.
Either that, or you could go along with him and then make the moves that he
said would "ruin his year"...
Cal
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris,
My thoughts:
> Gents,
>
> Whew. Cal, you had me sweating there! but now that the retreat is in, I
> have some thoughts, and possibly a plan.
>
> Thoughts:
>
> Does it seem likely to anyone else that I will lose Kiel this season? I
> can't call Paul anymore -- will he suicide out against me, or
> will he defend
> what he has?
>
> Does anyone know if Christian believes that R/T is solid, weakening, or
> anything? Any intell on that front? Could we create some mis-information
> there?
>
> Plans:
>
> Ok, the first thing I would like to do, is get a turkish fleet
> past the boot
> of Italy, while maintaining my sanity. I would like to offer to
> you, Meef,
> the lovely resort of Tunis! Yes, Tunis, blessed coastal province
> beloved of
> all sea-going Europeans. How do we get you there?
>
> Meef, dig this set of orders: (sorry, I've been talking to a lot of swing
> people lately -- I am teaching some workshops in Denver next weekend, and
> have been promoting it.)
>
> F Ionian -> Emed
> F Albania -> Greece
> A Serbia S F Albania -> Greece
> F Tyn -> GoL
>
> F Aegean S F Greece -> Ionian
> F Greece -> Ionian
> F Smy -> Emed
> F Bul -> Gre
> F Bla S A Rum
>
> Ok, so what happens?
>
> Ionian is dislodged, and retreats to Naples
> Greece becomes Austrian (for the moment)
> Turkey has fleets in Bul, Black, Smy, Aeg, and Ionian, and can
> remove either
> Smy or Bla.
>
I do not like the idea of Turkey giving up a unit so Austria will not have
to. I want to keep Greece AND take possession of Ion this year.
> Now, all of this is predicated on the Idea that I will lose Kiel. I am
> trying to keep the front numbers open.
>
> Next year, we can push TWO turkish fleets towards the atlantic,
> with Ion ->
> Tun/Aeg->Ion, and then in the fall Tun -> Naf/ Ion -> Tun.
>
I DO NOT like the idea of having 2 turkish fleets in the med and only having
4 units for a while. I would be too vulnerable.
> This redresses the SC imbalance, and actually gives us a fleet
> advantage in
> the Westmed, if I also have two fleets there.
>
> Now, I am leaving myself open to a massive stab here -- F ionian to
> Adriadic/ Aegean -> Ionian simply ruins my whole year. So, in
> return, I am
> asking for Greece in advance. You will have three units on it, and I will
> be unable to hold it, without your continuing goodwill. You did say you
> were willing to be patient. In the worst case, I create another stalemate
> situation. If I, for example, supported Ionian to hold, I would
> be leaving
> myself open to England, and all my fleets would be forced to try to hold
> Turkey back.
I am willing to be patient but not willing to hang my butt out in the wind.
>
>
> At or about this point, Cal should be building his Second northern fleet.
> England shouldn't be able to handle the pressure from both sides of his
> lines.
>
> Ok -- that was plan one.
>
> Plan 2, in the north
>
> Kiel supports Denmark to hold. (Shudder) If I tell Paul I am doing this,
> and then do it, I win some cred with him (not that I could get
> anywhere near
> positive again), AND it slows england down.
>
> Meef, you're the only one who hasn't lied to Paul yet. Have you any
> relations with him at all?
>
I will talk to Paul but do not know what I can gain for r/t/a out of it.
> Cal, how do you want to DMZ? I'd like to see you back in Prussia, rather
> than Silesia, and Sev rather than Ukraine. I am content to hold
> in Bud and
> Ser, as well. Galicia to Vienna? Bohemia? Let me know.
>
> Ok, long post. Lets plan plans!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
Thoughts?
Meef
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Cal,
Thanks for the note, I will be looking for your post tonight. I do get
twitchy, as you know . . .;)
Meef,
Ok. I am not willing to give you control of the Ionian AND greece at this
time. I have concerns regarding vulnerability as well. I am not asking
you to trust me blindly, or to hang your tuckus out where the breezes blow.
I will be moving F Tyn away from you.
F Ionian, due to the bounce in Eastmed, will be forced to retreat away from
you.
That leaves F Greece, which will have turkish fleets in the Ionian,
Bulgaria, and the Aegean surrounding it. I am putting everything at risk
here -- the Ionian is the heart of my position, it holds down my entire
southern flank.
And you want to go through it, in a R/A./T alliance. That's ok. However, I
dont think a little insurance on my part is unreasonable. At 4 centers for
one year, you will have a much harder time stabbing me -- for exactly the
security reasons you mention. You would be vulnerable to a R/A
counterstrike, because you wouldn't have enough fleets to cover all your
bases. Next year, you will take Tunis, AND have control over Greece,
whether you take it or not depending on the situation in the north, I think.
I am willing to come down in SC count. I am not married to my dots. But, I
want a reasonable amount of security in return. I am sure I don't need to
point out that I CAN draw the line here -- I can hold the Ionian against
you, and given the army situation, I can probably hold the rest of my
centers from R/T. But that doesn't do ME any good, if England then comes
and clobbers my rear. Nor indeed does it do you any good, for the same
reason -- Russia and I will have to work together to stop England.
Meef, I guess this is me swinging from nice guy to mean guy again. ;)
heheheh. Turkey is still around because Cal doesn't trust me. If he did,
we would work to eliminate you, and take a three way draw with England.
That is what was happening in about 1908 or so, when I stabbed Cal because
his position in the Balkans was too good, and I was being distracted by
Italy. I never intended to eliminate him -- StPete was too important
(though why christian gave it back to you, Cal, instead of taking it himself
remains a mystery to me. It was either a very good play, or a very bad one,
and I don't know which yet.)
My point? I do have one. Working you out to the med is a good thing for
me. It frees me up to fight Christian in the north. It is also a bad thing
for me, in that you have allready stabbed me once (without, I submit,
reasonable cause) and I really don't trust you that much. I will not give
up the Ionian while you are at 5 centers. I will not give it up if you are
in Aegean and Eastmed at the same time.
Thoughts?
Chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris,
U made mention of my second season stab. Although is seemed unwarranted, I
feel without a doubt, if I had worked with u to eliminate Russia, I would be
dead or almost dead by now. That is the ONLY reason I did what I did. So
much for my credibility plea...
> Meef,
>
> Ok. I am not willing to give you control of the Ionian AND Greece at this
> time. I have concerns regarding vulnerability as well. I am not asking
> you to trust me blindly, or to hang your tuckus out where the
> breezes blow.
>
> I will be moving F Tyn away from you.
> F Ionian, due to the bounce in Eastmed, will be forced to retreat
> away from
> you.
>
> That leaves F Greece, which will have turkish fleets in the Ionian,
> Bulgaria, and the Aegean surrounding it. I am putting everything at risk
> here -- the Ionian is the heart of my position, it holds down my entire
> southern flank.
>
> And you want to go through it, in a R/A./T alliance. That's ok.
> However, I
> dont think a little insurance on my part is unreasonable. At 4
> centers for
> one year, you will have a much harder time stabbing me -- for exactly the
> security reasons you mention. You would be vulnerable to a R/A
> counterstrike, because you wouldn't have enough fleets to cover all your
> bases. Next year, you will take Tunis, AND have control over Greece,
> whether you take it or not depending on the situation in the
> north, I think.
>
I understand your need for security.
Say i have fleets in:
Gre
Bul(sc)
aeg (leaving eas open for security)
Ion
bla
Then what?
I need a f bla to protect from all the forward Austrian armies. Will these
pull back, say dmz of Gal? If so, this will free up a fleet for the med.
Where would u want Ion to go next?
Is there a chance I am eek Tunis outta u?
With Tun and Bla freed up, this should give me some ability to make a
reasonable presence in the med.
Is there a way u can place some units in the boot and along the coast
provide some increased security for yourself. How about:
f alb - the boot for security
a tyr - the boot for security
a gal - the coast for security
Then f tyn and f ion to the med along with 2 turkish fleets we can plug up
and add pressure on that flank while Russia adds pressure from the other
Flank.
Proposed moves:
With the following moves:
f aeg - ion
f gre s aeg - ion
f smy - aeg
f bla s rum
f bul(sc) s gre
f ion - ?(not eas) (retreating to Tun)
f alb - adr
a ser s gal - bud
a bud - tri
a tyr - ven
a pie h
a ukr s rum
a rum s ukr
a war s sil ?
I think this will position ourselves for a guarded cooperation. There will
be a limit on how many units we can put on the line due to the exposure we
have from one another.
> I am willing to come down in SC count. I am not married to my
> dots. But, I
> want a reasonable amount of security in return. I am sure I don't need to
> point out that I CAN draw the line here -- I can hold the Ionian against
> you, and given the army situation, I can probably hold the rest of my
> centers from R/T. But that doesn't do ME any good, if England then comes
> and clobbers my rear. Nor indeed does it do you any good, for the same
> reason -- Russia and I will have to work together to stop England.
>
> Meef, I guess this is me swinging from nice guy to mean guy again. ;)
> heheheh. Turkey is still around because Cal doesn't trust me. If he did,
> we would work to eliminate you, and take a three way draw with England.
> That is what was happening in about 1908 or so, when I stabbed Cal because
> his position in the Balkans was too good, and I was being distracted by
> Italy. I never intended to eliminate him -- StPete was too important
> (though why christian gave it back to you, Cal, instead of taking
> it himself
> remains a mystery to me. It was either a very good play, or a
> very bad one,
> and I don't know which yet.)
>
> My point? I do have one. Working you out to the med is a good thing for
> me. It frees me up to fight Christian in the north. It is also
> a bad thing
> for me, in that you have allready stabbed me once (without, I submit,
> reasonable cause) and I really don't trust you that much. I will not give
> up the Ionian while you are at 5 centers. I will not give it up
> if you are
> in Aegean and Eastmed at the same time.
>
See credibility plea at top.
I do not see a need to be in eas and Aeg at the same time, waist of
resources.
> Thoughts?
>
> Chris
>
>
Thoughts?
Meef
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Meef,
I accept that YOU had reasons for your stab. I dont think you had correctly
assessed the situation, though.
In any case, Let me state again:
I will NOT give up the Ionian when you have 5 centers.
I don't know how to be more clear about that. Either Greece goes to the
Ionian, and we bounce in the Eastmed and I take Greece, or I support Ionian
to hold.
This is non-negotiable. I could have popped Greece in the spring, and held
it in the fall. I did not, in the interests of working together. I will be
moving out of Galicia, I am simply waiting for Cal so we can decide exactly
HOW we can do that. This should alleviate the need for Fleet Black.
If you look at my plan closely, you will see that it puts Turkey at ZERO
risk from me. If you have other issues, I am willing to hear them. If, at
any point, I balk on our agreement, you can re-take Greece. Also, once you
are in the Ionian, I have no choices. I must work with you, for you will
have me exposed.
Thats the way I see it. If you have another plan, that can change my mind,
I wait to hear it. As far as I can tell, though, you arent even reading
what I write.
Chris
Broadcast message from England in
'ruffians':
>HOORAY! Happy Birthday Ludvig!
Actually he will be called Zackarias...Ludvig Christian is just traditional
familynames.
>World dip Con 47? How about world dip Con 20? Two 10 year old champs go at
>it hammer and tongs! ;)
Well, as a friend of mine said: He looks kind, he must be like his mother.
>Christian, what is your snail mail address?
Not that I know why you�re asking but it is
Christian Dreyer
Trollebergsv�gen 91B
SE - 227 31 LUND
SK�NE
SWEDEN
all the best
/Christian
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> I accept that YOU had reasons for your stab. I dont think you had
correctly
> assessed the situation, though.
>
> In any case, Let me state again:
>
> I will NOT give up the Ionian when you have 5 centers.
>
> I don't know how to be more clear about that. Either Greece goes to the
> Ionian, and we bounce in the Eastmed and I take Greece, or I support
Ionian
> to hold.
I think we're going to have to play it Chris's way for now. He does hold
all the cards when it comes to a Med stalemate. The upside is that, once
you ARE in the Med, you'll be able to grow by three or more within a year or
two, after the stab.
I understand your apprehensions and share them. I just don't see any way,
other than all-out attack, that we can force him to let us advance. If he
does renege on anything, I'll jump on him with both feet from my end.
> This is non-negotiable. I could have popped Greece in the spring, and
held
> it in the fall. I did not, in the interests of working together. I will
be
> moving out of Galicia, I am simply waiting for Cal so we can decide
exactly
> HOW we can do that. This should alleviate the need for Fleet Black.
>
> If you look at my plan closely, you will see that it puts Turkey at ZERO
> risk from me. If you have other issues, I am willing to hear them. If,
at
> any point, I balk on our agreement, you can re-take Greece. Also, once
you
> are in the Ionian, I have no choices. I must work with you, for you will
> have me exposed.
>
> Thats the way I see it. If you have another plan, that can change my
mind,
> I wait to hear it. As far as I can tell, though, you arent even reading
> what I write.
Getting snarky, isn't he? <G> Well, let's humour him until you get into the
Ionian, then grab what we can.
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
>'ruffians':
Just a quick reply here. Things are still hectic around here, but I'm off
work today, so I've got a few minutes.
>Whew. Cal, you had me sweating there! but now that the retreat is in, I
>have some thoughts, and possibly a plan.
Wasn't me, I had my retreat in in plenty of time. It was the Judge down and
outage...
>Thoughts:
>
>Does it seem likely to anyone else that I will lose Kiel this season? I
>can't call Paul anymore -- will he suicide out against me, or will he
>defend
>what he has?
Hard to tell. Paul isn't writing to me so, unless he's really DOESN'T care
about the game (I would find that hard to believe), he must be talking to
England about *something*...
>Does anyone know if Christian believes that R/T is solid, weakening, or
>anything? Any intell on that front? Could we create some mis-information
>there?
He hasn't mentioned anything to me, but he can obviously see what's in front
of him. I suppose I could create some mis-info. I'm using the move to the
Black Sea as an "excuse" for my disband.
>Plans:
>
>Ok, the first thing I would like to do, is get a turkish fleet past the
>boot
>of Italy, while maintaining my sanity. I would like to offer to you, Meef,
>the lovely resort of Tunis! Yes, Tunis, blessed coastal province beloved
>of
>all sea-going Europeans. How do we get you there?
By boat? <G>
>Meef, dig this set of orders: (sorry, I've been talking to a lot of swing
>people lately -- I am teaching some workshops in Denver next weekend, and
>have been promoting it.)
I'm hip! I'm hip!
<Suggested moves snipped>
<Explanation of suggestion moves snipped>
>Now, I am leaving myself open to a massive stab here -- F ionian to
>Adriadic/ Aegean -> Ionian simply ruins my whole year. So, in return, I am
>asking for Greece in advance. You will have three units on it, and I will
>be unable to hold it, without your continuing goodwill. You did say you
>were willing to be patient. In the worst case, I create another stalemate
>situation. If I, for example, supported Ionian to hold, I would be leaving
>myself open to England, and all my fleets would be forced to try to hold
>Turkey back.
I can see where Meef would be a little tenuous about losing a centre just to
keep you from removing, but I understand your paranoia as well. I'll let
you guys work this one out since my only concern is that something happens
FAST enough to keep England from moving into the Med. We're lucky that
England is scared of becoming a target by growing too fast (at least, I'm
assuming that's his reason for not sweeping around Spain).
>Plan 2, in the north
>
>Kiel supports Denmark to hold. (Shudder) If I tell Paul I am doing this,
>and then do it, I win some cred with him (not that I could get anywhere
>near
>positive again), AND it slows england down.
Well, it isn't like Paul has never believed you before...
>Cal, how do you want to DMZ? I'd like to see you back in Prussia, rather
>than Silesia, and Sev rather than Ukraine. I am content to hold in Bud and
>Ser, as well. Galicia to Vienna? Bohemia? Let me know.
What are your plans for Berlin? I assume you're not talking about this year
for the promised turnover? I don't see where it really makes much
difference if I'm in Sil or Pru. You'll have to trust me that I'm certainly
not about to start working with Paul (supporting him anywhere or cutting any
of your supports wouldn't exactly be productive for me, would it?). I WILL
move Ukr-Sev. It will look natural with the fleet in Black anyway. I'd
like to see Gal back in Vie. Is this copascetic?
Thoughts, guys?
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
<<What are your plans for Berlin? I assume you're not talking about this
year
for the promised turnover? I don't see where it really makes much
difference if I'm in Sil or Pru. You'll have to trust me that I'm certainly
not about to start working with Paul (supporting him anywhere or cutting any
of your supports wouldn't exactly be productive for me, would it?). I WILL
move Ukr-Sev. It will look natural with the fleet in Black anyway. I'd
like to see Gal back in Vie. Is this copascetic?
Thoughts, guys?
Cal>>
Cal, you had me on the floor with that dry little comment -- its not like
Paul has never belived you before . . .
Heheheheh. Rich.
Ok, Meef and I are deep in discussion over Greece. I am pretty adamant that
I get it in return for the Ionian, and upon reflection, that has nothing to
do with Kiel! I am jsut plain scared! If I get another build, I'll waive
it and turn Berlin over to Cal next year.
Meef, you may not believe this, but I CAN be a solid alliance player. I
couldn't have gotten here if that weren't true.
Berlin will be supporting Kiel to hold. Silesia/ Prussia, yes, little
difference. Just less tension if you're in Prussia, is all.
Gal -> Vie, copasetic it is!
may I share? I just bought a new CD -- Count Basie Swings, Joe Williams
Sings. If you love the count, you gotta love this stuff!
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Cal, you had me on the floor with that dry little comment -- its not like
> Paul has never belived you before . . .
>
> Heheheheh. Rich.
<G>
> Ok, Meef and I are deep in discussion over Greece. I am pretty adamant
that
> I get it in return for the Ionian, and upon reflection, that has nothing
to
> do with Kiel! I am jsut plain scared! If I get another build, I'll waive
> it and turn Berlin over to Cal next year.
And if you don't get a build? I can't count on taking centres away from
England in order to get builds and building only a single fleet without
being able to follow up with a second is foolish.
> Meef, you may not believe this, but I CAN be a solid alliance player. I
> couldn't have gotten here if that weren't true.
I've been trying to find references for this, but an Internet power search
turned up "No Matches Found"...
> may I share? I just bought a new CD -- Count Basie Swings, Joe Williams
> Sings. If you love the count, you gotta love this stuff!
Isn't it "If you love this stuff, you gotta love the Count"? Never heard
much of his music, but I do like swing. My parents told me the Count used
to play the little town outside of the Reserve where they lived (Bala,
Ontario) back in the 50s & 60s. I kinda like Glenn Miller myself. d;-})
Cal
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris,
> Meef,
>
> I accept that YOU had reasons for your stab. I dont think you
> had correctly
> assessed the situation, though.
>
> In any case, Let me state again:
>
> I will NOT give up the Ionian when you have 5 centers.
> I don't know how to be more clear about that. Either Greece goes to the
> Ionian, and we bounce in the Eastmed and I take Greece, or I
> support Ionian
> to hold.
> This is non-negotiable. I could have popped Greece in the
> spring, and held
> it in the fall. I did not, in the interests of working together.
Ok I get the point. I am more interested in a cooperation that a stalemate.
> I will be
> moving out of Galicia, I am simply waiting for Cal so we can
> decide exactly
> HOW we can do that. This should alleviate the need for Fleet Black.
I will be able to utilize f bla, which is good.
> If you look at my plan closely, you will see that it puts Turkey at ZERO
> risk from me.
Zero risk in Diplomacy, novel idea!
If you have other issues, I am willing to hear
> them. If, at
> any point, I balk on our agreement, you can re-take Greece.
> Also, once you
> are in the Ionian, I have no choices. I must work with you, for you will
> have me exposed.
> Thats the way I see it. If you have another plan, that can
> change my mind,
> I wait to hear it. As far as I can tell, though, you arent even reading
> what I write.
>
> Chris
I am interested in how and when I will get the unit I lost back. I assume
Tunis in the spring.
> <<What are your plans for Berlin? I assume you're not talking about this
> year
> for the promised turnover? I don't see where it really makes much
> difference if I'm in Sil or Pru. You'll have to trust me that
> I'm certainly
> not about to start working with Paul (supporting him anywhere or
> cutting any
> of your supports wouldn't exactly be productive for me, would
> it?). I WILL
> move Ukr-Sev. It will look natural with the fleet in Black anyway. I'd
> like to see Gal back in Vie. Is this copascetic?
dmz of gal is crucial
> Thoughts, guys?
>
> Cal>>
>
> Cal, you had me on the floor with that dry little comment -- its not like
> Paul has never belived you before . . .
>
> Heheheheh. Rich.
>
> Ok, Meef and I are deep in discussion over Greece. I am pretty
> adamant that
> I get it in return for the Ionian, and upon reflection, that has
> nothing to
> do with Kiel! I am jsut plain scared!
I wonder who is the most scared!!
If I get another build, I'll waive
> it and turn Berlin over to Cal next year.
>
> Meef, you may not believe this, but I CAN be a solid alliance player. I
> couldn't have gotten here if that weren't true.
>
I have never had any doubt of your level of play, and having become good
with alliances is surely part of your overall play.
> Berlin will be supporting Kiel to hold. Silesia/ Prussia, yes, little
> difference. Just less tension if you're in Prussia, is all.
>
> Gal -> Vie, copasetic it is!
>
> may I share? I just bought a new CD -- Count Basie Swings, Joe Williams
> Sings. If you love the count, you gotta love this stuff!
>
> Chris
>
How about not bouncing me out of eas?
I will be at 4 sc but in a more forward position to get to the med like we
agreed.
I am willing to issue:
F Aeg S Gre - ion
F Gre - Ion
F Smy - eas
F Bul(sc) - Gre
F Bla S A Rum
If u will not bounce me out of eas.
Thoughts?
Meef
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
fyi
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:05 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: RE: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> :: Judge: USEF Game: Ruffians Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: F1913M Thu Feb 3 2000 23:30:00 PST
>
> Message sent to Austria:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Chris,
>
> > Meef,
> >
> > I accept that YOU had reasons for your stab. I dont think you
> > had correctly
> > assessed the situation, though.
> >
> > In any case, Let me state again:
> >
> > I will NOT give up the Ionian when you have 5 centers.
> > I don't know how to be more clear about that. Either Greece goes to the
> > Ionian, and we bounce in the Eastmed and I take Greece, or I
> > support Ionian
> > to hold.
> > This is non-negotiable. I could have popped Greece in the
> > spring, and held
> > it in the fall. I did not, in the interests of working together.
>
> Ok I get the point. I am more interested in a cooperation that a
> stalemate.
>
> > I will be
> > moving out of Galicia, I am simply waiting for Cal so we can
> > decide exactly
> > HOW we can do that. This should alleviate the need for Fleet Black.
>
> I will be able to utilize f bla, which is good.
>
> > If you look at my plan closely, you will see that it puts Turkey at ZERO
> > risk from me.
>
> Zero risk in Diplomacy, novel idea!
>
> If you have other issues, I am willing to hear
> > them. If, at
> > any point, I balk on our agreement, you can re-take Greece.
> > Also, once you
> > are in the Ionian, I have no choices. I must work with you,
> for you will
> > have me exposed.
> > Thats the way I see it. If you have another plan, that can
> > change my mind,
> > I wait to hear it. As far as I can tell, though, you arent even reading
> > what I write.
> >
> > Chris
>
> I am interested in how and when I will get the unit I lost back. I assume
> Tunis in the spring.
>
> > <<What are your plans for Berlin? I assume you're not talking
> about this
> > year
> > for the promised turnover? I don't see where it really makes much
> > difference if I'm in Sil or Pru. You'll have to trust me that
> > I'm certainly
> > not about to start working with Paul (supporting him anywhere or
> > cutting any
> > of your supports wouldn't exactly be productive for me, would
> > it?). I WILL
> > move Ukr-Sev. It will look natural with the fleet in Black anyway. I'd
> > like to see Gal back in Vie. Is this copascetic?
>
> dmz of gal is crucial
>
> > Thoughts, guys?
> >
> > Cal>>
> >
> > Cal, you had me on the floor with that dry little comment --
> its not like
> > Paul has never belived you before . . .
> >
> > Heheheheh. Rich.
> >
> > Ok, Meef and I are deep in discussion over Greece. I am pretty
> > adamant that
> > I get it in return for the Ionian, and upon reflection, that has
> > nothing to
> > do with Kiel! I am jsut plain scared!
>
> I wonder who is the most scared!!
>
> If I get another build, I'll waive
> > it and turn Berlin over to Cal next year.
> >
> > Meef, you may not believe this, but I CAN be a solid alliance player. I
> > couldn't have gotten here if that weren't true.
> >
>
> I have never had any doubt of your level of play, and having become good
> with alliances is surely part of your overall play.
>
> > Berlin will be supporting Kiel to hold. Silesia/ Prussia, yes, little
> > difference. Just less tension if you're in Prussia, is all.
> >
> > Gal -> Vie, copasetic it is!
> >
> > may I share? I just bought a new CD -- Count Basie Swings, Joe Williams
> > Sings. If you love the count, you gotta love this stuff!
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> How about not bouncing me out of eas?
> I will be at 4 sc but in a more forward position to get to the med like we
> agreed.
>
> I am willing to issue:
>
> F Aeg S Gre - ion
> F Gre - Ion
> F Smy - eas
> F Bul(sc) - Gre
> F Bla S A Rum
>
> If u will not bounce me out of eas.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Meef
>
>
> End of message.
>
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Meef,
Hmmm. well, we are closer to an agreement, at least -- yes, Tunis next
spring, that was to be the exchange.
<<How about not bouncing me out of eas?
I will be at 4 sc but in a more forward position to get to the med like we
agreed.>>
But remember my other little condition?
Not while you are in the Aegean and the Eastmed at the same time?
Simply put, I want to reduce the chance of you stabbing me. Now, I know you
want to eliminate the chances of me stabbing you! However, at this time, I
am much more at risk than you. Yes, even though I have twice as many
centers, I have four fronts to defend -- you have two.
Ok. My proposed moves again:
Austria:
F Tyn -> Gol
F Ion -> Eastmed
F Albania -> Greece
A Serbia S F Albania -> Greece
A Galicia -> Vienna
A Bud -> Gal
Turkey:
F Black S A Rum
F Greece -> Ionain
F Aegean S F Greece -> Ionian
F Smy -> Eastmed
F Bul -> Greece
Russia:
A Ukr -> Sev
A War -> Gal
A Rum Hold
Ok, this DMZ's Galicia and Ukraine. Rumania becomes supported by Sev.
Ionian Retreats to Naples. Turkey removes one, I am even or build one. The
closest unit I have to Turkey is F Greece, which is surrounded by three
turkish fleets, and whose only support is cuttable from Rumania.
Next year, regardles of my progress into France, I will turn over Berlin to
Russia, for a second fleet build. Tunis will go to Turkey, redressing the
SC count -- however, it is my hope that that build will be waived in the
interests of peace! We shall see at the time. Perhaps another fleet to
occupy the Black ad infinitum would give everyone security. In any case,
that leaves me -2 sc's, -3 if Greece goes away as well. In this situation,
at this time, we don't need more units, we need the units we have to get to
the front.
Cal, I ask you -- is this too much to ask Meef? A sc for my security? In
my mind, it is a token -- he can re-take it at any time, should I deviate
from the plan. I really, really fear him breaking my southern flank open.
Chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
F Bla S Rum
F Gre - Ion
F Aeg S Gre - Ion
F Smy - Eas
F Bul(sc) - Gre
Chris,
k, I have issued orders:
F Bla S Rum
F Gre - Ion
F Aeg S Gre - Ion
F Smy - Eas
F Bul(sc) - Gre
Have ever wrestled a black bear?
Meef
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:18 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Meef,
>
> Hmmm. well, we are closer to an agreement, at least -- yes, Tunis next
> spring, that was to be the exchange.
>
> <<How about not bouncing me out of eas?
> I will be at 4 sc but in a more forward position to get to the med like we
> agreed.>>
>
> But remember my other little condition?
>
> Not while you are in the Aegean and the Eastmed at the same time?
>
> Simply put, I want to reduce the chance of you stabbing me. Now,
> I know you
> want to eliminate the chances of me stabbing you! However, at
> this time, I
> am much more at risk than you. Yes, even though I have twice as many
> centers, I have four fronts to defend -- you have two.
>
> Ok. My proposed moves again:
>
> Austria:
>
> F Tyn -> Gol
> F Ion -> Eastmed
> F Albania -> Greece
> A Serbia S F Albania -> Greece
> A Galicia -> Vienna
> A Bud -> Gal
>
> Turkey:
>
> F Black S A Rum
> F Greece -> Ionain
> F Aegean S F Greece -> Ionian
> F Smy -> Eastmed
> F Bul -> Greece
>
> Russia:
>
> A Ukr -> Sev
> A War -> Gal
> A Rum Hold
>
> Ok, this DMZ's Galicia and Ukraine. Rumania becomes supported by Sev.
> Ionian Retreats to Naples. Turkey removes one, I am even or
> build one. The
> closest unit I have to Turkey is F Greece, which is surrounded by three
> turkish fleets, and whose only support is cuttable from Rumania.
>
> Next year, regardles of my progress into France, I will turn over
> Berlin to
> Russia, for a second fleet build. Tunis will go to Turkey, redressing the
> SC count -- however, it is my hope that that build will be waived in the
> interests of peace! We shall see at the time. Perhaps another fleet to
> occupy the Black ad infinitum would give everyone security. In any case,
> that leaves me -2 sc's, -3 if Greece goes away as well. In this
> situation,
> at this time, we don't need more units, we need the units we have
> to get to
> the front.
>
> Cal, I ask you -- is this too much to ask Meef? A sc for my security? In
> my mind, it is a token -- he can re-take it at any time, should I deviate
> from the plan. I really, really fear him breaking my southern flank open.
>
> Chris
>
>
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Cal, I ask you -- is this too much to ask Meef? A sc for my security? In
> my mind, it is a token -- he can re-take it at any time, should I deviate
> from the plan. I really, really fear him breaking my southern flank open.
I don't think it's THAT much to ask, although I can certainly understand
Meef's point of view. Frankly, the idea of not trusting you is one that
doesn't exactly require the firing of more than a handful of neurons, but I
think he's pretty safe here. I assume you know that if you were to cross
him, I'd be heading straight for the Austrian homeland and damn the
consequences...? With that in mind, I'm pretty sure you'll play this
straight.
Question: did you type the moves you suggested for me correctly?
>A Ukr -> Sev
>A War -> Gal
>A Rum Hold
Or are you planning a Bud-Gal bounce? If so, that would be fine.
Cal
PS: I'm about to head out into a raging snowstorm. If you write back
immediately, I won't be getting back to you as fast as usual.
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Are you calling me Davy Crocket or something?
<<Have ever wrestled a black bear?>>
;)
Seriously, Meef, are you cool with this and my reasons for it? I dont want
to piss you off, I want to work with you. If I come off as domineering, I
am sorry. It isn't the way I mean to be.
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Fyi,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:26 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: RE: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> :: Judge: USEF Game: Ruffians Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: F1913M Thu Feb 3 2000 23:30:00 PST
>
> Message sent to Austria:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
> Chris,
>
> k, I have issued orders:
>
> F Bla S Rum
> F Gre - Ion
> F Aeg S Gre - Ion
> F Smy - Eas
> F Bul(sc) - Gre
>
> Have ever wrestled a black bear?
>
> Meef
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:18 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
> >
> >
> > This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> > Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> > Report problems with individual games to your GM.
> >
> > Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
> >
> > ***********************************************************
> > Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> > (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> > if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> > ***********************************************************
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia
> and Turkey in
> > 'ruffians':
> >
> >
> > Meef,
> >
> > Hmmm. well, we are closer to an agreement, at least -- yes, Tunis next
> > spring, that was to be the exchange.
> >
> > <<How about not bouncing me out of eas?
> > I will be at 4 sc but in a more forward position to get to the
> med like we
> > agreed.>>
> >
> > But remember my other little condition?
> >
> > Not while you are in the Aegean and the Eastmed at the same time?
> >
> > Simply put, I want to reduce the chance of you stabbing me. Now,
> > I know you
> > want to eliminate the chances of me stabbing you! However, at
> > this time, I
> > am much more at risk than you. Yes, even though I have twice as many
> > centers, I have four fronts to defend -- you have two.
> >
> > Ok. My proposed moves again:
> >
> > Austria:
> >
> > F Tyn -> Gol
> > F Ion -> Eastmed
> > F Albania -> Greece
> > A Serbia S F Albania -> Greece
> > A Galicia -> Vienna
> > A Bud -> Gal
> >
> > Turkey:
> >
> > F Black S A Rum
> > F Greece -> Ionain
> > F Aegean S F Greece -> Ionian
> > F Smy -> Eastmed
> > F Bul -> Greece
> >
> > Russia:
> >
> > A Ukr -> Sev
> > A War -> Gal
> > A Rum Hold
> >
> > Ok, this DMZ's Galicia and Ukraine. Rumania becomes supported by Sev.
> > Ionian Retreats to Naples. Turkey removes one, I am even or
> > build one. The
> > closest unit I have to Turkey is F Greece, which is surrounded by three
> > turkish fleets, and whose only support is cuttable from Rumania.
> >
> > Next year, regardles of my progress into France, I will turn over
> > Berlin to
> > Russia, for a second fleet build. Tunis will go to Turkey,
> redressing the
> > SC count -- however, it is my hope that that build will be waived in the
> > interests of peace! We shall see at the time. Perhaps another fleet to
> > occupy the Black ad infinitum would give everyone security. In
> any case,
> > that leaves me -2 sc's, -3 if Greece goes away as well. In this
> > situation,
> > at this time, we don't need more units, we need the units we have
> > to get to
> > the front.
> >
> > Cal, I ask you -- is this too much to ask Meef? A sc for my
> security? In
> > my mind, it is a token -- he can re-take it at any time, should
> I deviate
> > from the plan. I really, really fear him breaking my southern
> flank open.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
> End of message.
>
> Movement orders for Fall of 1913. (ruffians.059)
>
> Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Ionian Sea.
> Turkey: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea -> Ionian Sea.
> Turkey: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Greece.
> Turkey: Fleet Smyrna -> Aegean Sea.
> Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Russian Army Rumania.
>
>
> Wait status cleared. Orders may now be processed
> before Thu Feb 3 2000 23:30:00 PST.
>
> Movement orders for Fall of 1913. (ruffians.059)
>
> Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Greece -> Ionian Sea.
> Turkey: Fleet Greece -> Ionian Sea.
> Turkey: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) -> Greece.
> Turkey: Fleet Smyrna -> Eastern Mediterranean.
> Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Russian Army Rumania.
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Cal,
Yes, I was planning a bounce in GAL. Good luck in the storm!
chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris,
not po'd just tuckered.
Meef
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:33 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Are you calling me Davy Crocket or something?
>
> <<Have ever wrestled a black bear?>>
>
> ;)
>
> Seriously, Meef, are you cool with this and my reasons for it? I
> dont want
> to piss you off, I want to work with you. If I come off as domineering, I
> am sorry. It isn't the way I mean to be.
>
> Chris
>
>
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Yes, I was planning a bounce in GAL. Good luck in the storm!
Okay, the sled is in the garage, the dogs are fed and back in their kennel
and my parka is hanging by the fire in the meat house. Time to write some
letters.
Chris, at first glance, I was happy enough to do the moves you suggested
but, on second glance, I see that I am leaving myself open to having you
take Rumania. If I leave Ukr THIS turn, aren't I leaving myself open to
what you were worried about earlier? I know I could use the move to Sev as
a ruse to England and say that I'm worried about Turkey (same reason as for
my disband), but I think I'm more worried about you right now than
Christian.
I will support Rumania in place from Ukr and vacate NEXT turn. Once I build
a fleet up north, all bets are off anyway.
Ca va? (Okay?)
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Cal, or should I say Nanook?
Right right right -- Not thinking.
Ok, then. is Christian diploming with anyone? I dind't have a lot of time
when I was a new daddy!
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal, or should I say Nanook?
May as well. You couldn't pronounce my aboriginal name... <G>
> Right right right -- Not thinking.
Okay, I've sent in orders.
> Ok, then. is Christian diploming with anyone? I dind't have a lot of
time
> when I was a new daddy!
Really? Nobody would let me do ANYTHING when my daughter was born. Didn't
trust "Daddy" and, now that I have a granddaughter, they trust me even
less...
But, to answer your question, no, he hasn't written.
Cal
AKA Aren'yaken:'ra
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
I am sending in my moves -- did you need or want any supports to anywhere
anti-German? I don't want to pry -- I want to help!
Chris
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
My orders were submitted, but it must have been on that day that the
judge was down...?
Paul
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
I love it when a plan comes together. I am retreating to the Tyn, instead
of Naples -- that way I can bounce the move to the Westmed.
Chris
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Thanks for not suiciding out. As you can see, I am trying to fight England.
It looks like a tough call for the disband. I await your decision.
Chris
Adjustments
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> I love it when a plan comes together. I am retreating to the Tyn, instead
> of Naples -- that way I can bounce the move to the Westmed.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
hmm?
WHere should I disband? If i disband bla, bul is vulnerable. If i disband
smy then smy is vulnerable (gre - aeg - smy) if i aeg - ion.
Is Chris gonna squeal like a mashed cat if I want to go aeg - ion.
I think we are at our weakest while we transition into opening the northern
front with your fleet. What kind of problems do u think this will
precipitate with England? How can Chris hoodwink us? I am sure he is
working overtime thinking about that concept?
Thoughts?
Meef
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Thanks for not suiciding out. As you can see, I am trying to fight England.
> It looks like a tough call for the disband. I await your decision.
>
> Chris
MY call on the disband? Well, A Pie seems to be the least essential of your
units...
especially if A Tyr can cover Pie!
Paul
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Whoops! My bad phrasing. I actually have a build this turn. You have the
tough call on the disband. Tough to pick one German unit you can pull that
doesn't lead to another lost center next year.
Care to discuss options? Clearly, I can't be trusted. ;) However, I do
have a vested interest in you holding those centers, rather than Christian.
Chris
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
Oh, you were talking about MY removal!! I hadn't looked at the supply
chart until
after I just wrote you.
It IS a tough call, but I guess A Hol has to be the unlucky one.
It is the most
"sheltered" (from England) of the bunch.
Paul
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Yah, I figured that might be the one to go. Do you figure Christian for A
London?
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
You realize, of course, what a devastating build F Sev would be, right? ;)
I think the qualities you were looking for before are in place -- my fleets
are at the other end of the Med, and my armies away from Russia.
Look at the map and tell me it's not a good move for Russia -- I'll be busy
with England for a while with the fleets, and Turkey would give me no end of
headaches, but YOU would profit . . .
It could work . . .
(I have to write these letters, you understand. It doesn't mean I wont'
stick by the RAT if that's where your mind is made up, but I think its as
good a chance as we're likely to get to take Turkey down.)
Chris
Message from Austria to Master in 'ruffians':
Rick,
I have been negotiating whenever I have the chance -- and that includes
during retreat/build phases. Cal seemed to indicate that you didn't like
this, which I didn't really think about until now.
Is this the case?
Chris
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
FYI
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
>
> You realize, of course, what a devastating build F Sev would be, right?
;)
> I think the qualities you were looking for before are in place -- my
fleets
> are at the other end of the Med, and my armies away from Russia.
>
> Look at the map and tell me it's not a good move for Russia -- I'll be
busy
> with England for a while with the fleets, and Turkey would give me no end
of
> headaches, but YOU would profit . . .
>
> It could work . . .
>
> (I have to write these letters, you understand. It doesn't mean I wont'
> stick by the RAT if that's where your mind is made up, but I think its as
> good a chance as we're likely to get to take Turkey down.)
>
> Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
>From my perspective nothing has changed with Chris. Still the same
backstabbing sob as before. Do u think it wise to open up another front
with England now? I think we are not gonna get weaker that we are currently
in Austria's eyes unless r/e war breaks out heavily. I think he is
counting on the English front keeping us weak enough to handle (or get r/t
to stab each other). What will happen if u build a fleet in stp. Is this
the wisest build? What about a build in stpsc. That unit could be sold to
England and be utilized on 2 fronts. What is the wisest disband of Turkey?
Do u think tyn will bounce me outta Tun and keep me from building a unit
this year? I am as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof. Chris continually
tries to sell this line he can be an alliance player but out of the other
side of his mouth he is covertly trying to split up the alliance.
Ergggggg!!!! Youse pros, youse pros. Ergggggg!!!! Youse pro.............
Meef
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 2:52 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
>
> FYI
>
> > Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
> >
> >
> > You realize, of course, what a devastating build F Sev would be, right?
> ;)
> > I think the qualities you were looking for before are in place -- my
> fleets
> > are at the other end of the Med, and my armies away from Russia.
> >
> > Look at the map and tell me it's not a good move for Russia -- I'll be
> busy
> > with England for a while with the fleets, and Turkey would give
> me no end
> of
> > headaches, but YOU would profit . . .
> >
> > It could work . . .
> >
> > (I have to write these letters, you understand. It doesn't mean I wont'
> > stick by the RAT if that's where your mind is made up, but I
> think its as
> > good a chance as we're likely to get to take Turkey down.)
> >
> > Chris
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> >From my perspective nothing has changed with Chris. Still the same
> backstabbing sob as before. Do u think it wise to open up another front
> with England now? I think we are not gonna get weaker that we are
currently
> in Austria's eyes unless r/e war breaks out heavily. I think he is
> counting on the English front keeping us weak enough to handle (or get r/t
> to stab each other). What will happen if u build a fleet in stp. Is this
> the wisest build? What about a build in stpsc. That unit could be sold to
> England and be utilized on 2 fronts. What is the wisest disband of
Turkey?
> Do u think tyn will bounce me outta Tun and keep me from building a unit
> this year? I am as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof. Chris continually
> tries to sell this line he can be an alliance player but out of the other
> side of his mouth he is covertly trying to split up the alliance.
> Ergggggg!!!! Youse pros, youse pros. Ergggggg!!!! Youse
pro.............
Pros? Geez, if someone's getting paid for this, I want a piece! <G>
You've basically hit on what's been bugging me for some time now. I REALLY
REALLY don't know if I want to build that fleet that Chris so dearly wants.
I think you're exactly right that Chris wants me to get involved in a war
with England so that i become less of a threat to him.
Geez, I wonder if I could pass off an ARMY in St Pete as a misorder? Nah..
As for your build, I'd say that F Bla is probably best with me building an
army either in Sev or Mos. I have to keep in mind what could happen if
Chris was to order every one of his armies straight east.
Pardon me while I think out loud here: If I build an army, Chris WILL be
pissed, no doubt, but that MAY not mean he'll be angry with you. Perhaps,
if I do that, you could write him and say that you upset with me for not
sticking to the plan. Then you could agree to some moves against me WITH
him. If he decides to trust you, you could take Greece back and slip into
Naples at the same time. heck, the best possible thing would be that he
decides he doesn't NEED to head all his force east because he'll have your
help... After that, hopefully, you'd be able to build at least one army (we
need one in Bul if we're to make any progress against him - in fact, an army
in Bul is probably his biggest fear right now). I'd just have to try to
hold on as best I could in Russia and hope he doesn't throw EVERYTHING at
me.
Hmmm... What do you think?
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> You realize, of course, what a devastating build F Sev would be, right?
;)
> I think the qualities you were looking for before are in place -- my
fleets
> are at the other end of the Med, and my armies away from Russia.
>
> Look at the map and tell me it's not a good move for Russia -- I'll be
busy
> with England for a while with the fleets, and Turkey would give me no end
of
> headaches, but YOU would profit . . .
>
> It could work . . .
>
> (I have to write these letters, you understand. It doesn't mean I wont'
> stick by the RAT if that's where your mind is made up, but I think its as
> good a chance as we're likely to get to take Turkey down.)
You wouldn't be you if you didn't, Chris.... <G>
Anyway, I'm still in the position that, as goes Turkey goes, so goes I.
That's why I'm sticking (and HAVE stuck) to the plan you outlined.
Cal
PS: What's a tremewanc?
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
I would like to tippy - toe on this tight rope as long as possible and
accomplish the following goals in order of priority:
1. r/t stay solid
2. Keep Austria headed away from us.
3. Not alienate England.
4. Get Tunis and Ber w/o alienating Chris.
5. Keep England at bay.
6. Creep forward without minimal alarm (if a frog is put in cold water and
gradually heated up, it boils to death. A frog put into boiling water will
jump out)
7. Keep Austria confused.
Can u build a f stpsc and maintain 2, 3, 4, 5?
I think building an army may blow 2, 4
Could u ask permission from Christian about building f stpsc? U need a
fleet to make progress into the German homeland.
I think a stab now is fool-hearted.
Thoughts?
Meef
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 3:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
> > Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
> >
> > >From my perspective nothing has changed with Chris. Still the same
> > backstabbing sob as before. Do u think it wise to open up another front
> > with England now? I think we are not gonna get weaker that we are
> currently
> > in Austria's eyes unless r/e war breaks out heavily. I think he is
> > counting on the English front keeping us weak enough to handle
> (or get r/t
> > to stab each other). What will happen if u build a fleet in
> stp. Is this
> > the wisest build? What about a build in stpsc. That unit could
> be sold to
> > England and be utilized on 2 fronts. What is the wisest disband of
> Turkey?
> > Do u think tyn will bounce me outta Tun and keep me from building a unit
> > this year? I am as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof. Chris
> continually
> > tries to sell this line he can be an alliance player but out of
> the other
> > side of his mouth he is covertly trying to split up the alliance.
> > Ergggggg!!!! Youse pros, youse pros. Ergggggg!!!! Youse
> pro.............
>
> Pros? Geez, if someone's getting paid for this, I want a piece! <G>
>
> You've basically hit on what's been bugging me for some time now.
> I REALLY
> REALLY don't know if I want to build that fleet that Chris so
> dearly wants.
> I think you're exactly right that Chris wants me to get involved in a war
> with England so that i become less of a threat to him.
>
> Geez, I wonder if I could pass off an ARMY in St Pete as a
> misorder? Nah..
>
> As for your build, I'd say that F Bla is probably best with me building an
> army either in Sev or Mos. I have to keep in mind what could happen if
> Chris was to order every one of his armies straight east.
>
> Pardon me while I think out loud here: If I build an army, Chris WILL be
> pissed, no doubt, but that MAY not mean he'll be angry with you. Perhaps,
> if I do that, you could write him and say that you upset with me for not
> sticking to the plan. Then you could agree to some moves against me WITH
> him. If he decides to trust you, you could take Greece back and slip into
> Naples at the same time. heck, the best possible thing would be that he
> decides he doesn't NEED to head all his force east because he'll have your
> help... After that, hopefully, you'd be able to build at least
> one army (we
> need one in Bul if we're to make any progress against him - in
> fact, an army
> in Bul is probably his biggest fear right now). I'd just have to try to
> hold on as best I could in Russia and hope he doesn't throw EVERYTHING at
> me.
>
> Hmmm... What do you think?
>
> Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
Christian: I have a problem and I need your input on it.
Chris has been threatening to throw the game to you for the last two turns.
That's why I haven't been more aggressive towards him. He's also basically
*insisting* that I build a fleet in St Pete's north coast this turn and get
involved in a war with you. He points out, correctly, that if he was to
throw everything he has at me and Turkey, you would easily walk into an 18
centre victory. That puts me in the dilemma of either doing what he says
and getting into a foolish war with you (one lousy fleet in Stp is not
enough to start hostilities even if I was so inclined, which I'm not) or NOT
doing what he says and have the Austrian hordes sweep across the Russian
homeland while you walk in behind. I'm sure the latter option doesn't worry
you muchly, but I don't want to see anyone solo here (unless it's me! <G>).
Here's what I hope to do. I'm going to satisfy Chris's request to build a
northern fleet. Sort of. I'm going to build a fleet in St Pete SOUTH coast
for eventual use against him in the German homeland. This fleet will NOT
threaten any of your holdings in Scandinavia and, once Chris's fate has been
sealed, I will be happy to disband it so we can declare a three-way draw
(ERT).
I'm REALLY hoping that you can recognize the dilemma I'm in and that the
fact that I'm being honest about it will mean that we don't have to go to
war over it. Right now, Chris is carrying a bigger stick than you are in
terms of what he can do to me and I have to make SOME decision.
Please get back to me. I know you're busy these days with diapers and
formula, but I need to hear some input from you.
Thanks,
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> I would like to tippy - toe on this tight rope as long as possible and
> accomplish the following goals in order of priority:
>
> 1. r/t stay solid
> 2. Keep Austria headed away from us.
> 3. Not alienate England.
> 4. Get Tunis and Ber w/o alienating Chris.
> 5. Keep England at bay.
> 6. Creep forward without minimal alarm (if a frog is put in cold water
and
> gradually heated up, it boils to death. A frog put into boiling water
will
> jump out)
> 7. Keep Austria confused.
This is a pretty good set of priorities. Let's stick with it.
> Can u build a f stpsc and maintain 2, 3, 4, 5?
Maybe. Worth a shot anyway.
> I think building an army may blow 2, 4
Yeah, you're probably right.
> Could u ask permission from Christian about building f stpsc? U need a
> fleet to make progress into the German homeland.
I'm going to try. I can at least get his reaction to it.
> I think a stab now is fool-hearted.
Yeah, but probably not as foolhearty as getting into a war with England
right now. Your idea of StpSc is probably the best way to walk that
tightrope you mentioned. I'll let you know what Christian says.
Cal
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> Yah, I figured that might be the one to go. Do you figure Christian for A
> London?
>
> Chris
Yes, he needs armies to make much more progress in the mainland (that is, to
give
you much more competition for German dots?) and he really has enough fleets to
stuff up the doorway in/out of the Med (if he ever has any interest to do so).
It is hard to believe that he was in serious danger only a few gameyears
ago, isn't
it?
Russia, also, was in danger of falling to 2 centers only a short time ago.
Turkey
was safely contained. I wonder how things got so bad again?
Paul
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Cal,
It is ok with me that you build a fleet StP(sc). As we said before we need
a very casual way of eliminating Austria for you not to think I might
soloing. This is why I moved into Spain rather than Wes, as this is more
defensive and less offensive against Chris� centers.
By the way, Chris has been writing to me that he is sure Turkey will stab
you next move. He also tells me that Turkey used to forward anything
antirussian sent to him to you. One could think that he wanting you to
build StP is part of getting Turkey to stab you.
If you want to I can send a mail to Turkey and ask him to stab you. If he
will not stab you I guess he will tell me something and then send you the
mesage to show you he is your friend. What do you think?
all the best
Christian
Message from Master to Austria in 'ruffians':
The topic of diplomacy during retreats came up during Pouchtoo, when
I expressed my surprise that this was considered standard procedure in
email games. Since that I have decided to take it as standard
procedure. So, no, I have no problem with it.
Rick
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Ok,
I have two choices here -- build nothing, or build something.
I am planning on turning Berlin over to Cal next year, and Tunis to Meef as
well. Thats a net loss of two, and I don't really see me gaining two, so
it'd be a case of switching one unit for another -- clearly a fleet is what
I am contemplating.
My question is this -- would me haveing one more fleet in any way offend? I
would end up removing an army as a result, possibly two armies. Meef, I
guess you are the really concerned party. I am inclined to park a fleet in
the Adriadic for "home Defense", if noone objects.
Let me know!
Chris
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
>'ruffians':
>
>It is ok with me that you build a fleet StP(sc). As we said before we need
>a very casual way of eliminating Austria for you not to think I might
>soloing. This is why I moved into Spain rather than Wes, as this is more
>defensive and less offensive against Chris� centers.
Okay, sounds good.
>By the way, Chris has been writing to me that he is sure Turkey will stab
>you next move. He also tells me that Turkey used to forward anything
>antirussian sent to him to you. One could think that he wanting you to
>build StP is part of getting Turkey to stab you.
I think this is just Chris tying to create trouble. Turkey STILL sends me
Chris's e-mails trying to get Turkey to stab me and I send Turkey Chris's
e-mail trying to get me to stab *Turkey*. We usually get a good chuckle out
of it
>If you want to I can send a mail to Turkey and ask him to stab you. If he
>will not stab you I guess he will tell me something and then send you the
>mesage to show you he is your friend. What do you think?
Sure, can't hurt and I'd never want to say I'm TOTALLY sure of someone
(not at this level anyway...).
Talk to you after the builds.
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
>'ruffians':
>
>I have two choices here -- build nothing, or build something.
>
>I am planning on turning Berlin over to Cal next year, and Tunis to Meef as
>well. Thats a net loss of two, and I don't really see me gaining two, so
>it'd be a case of switching one unit for another -- clearly a fleet is what
>I am contemplating.
>
>My question is this -- would me haveing one more fleet in any way offend?
>I
>would end up removing an army as a result, possibly two armies. Meef, I
>guess you are the really concerned party. I am inclined to park a fleet in
>the Adriatic for "home Defense", if noone objects.
>
>Let me know!
MY preference is that you stick to what you said you were going to do, but
I'm willing to let Meef decide. He's the one who would be threatened by a
fleet build. I CAN say that I would be unhappy with an army as you have no
real use for one.
Cal
Message from England to Turkey in
'ruffians':
Hi there Sultan!
What are the chances that you and I aim to diminish Russias influence in
this game? I am sure he trustes you more than me. Therefore, if I move to
take StP in a few years he will move all he has to protect it, trusting
you. That will leave you a great shot at Rum and Sev and maybe more. What
do you think?
all the best
Christian, England
Message from Turkey to Austria and Russia in 'ruffians':
Chris, I most emphatically request u NO BUILD. Another fleet WILL BE VERY
BAD for our relationship.
Meef
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 9:26 PM
Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Austria and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> >Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey
in
> >'ruffians':
> >
> >I have two choices here -- build nothing, or build something.
> >
> >I am planning on turning Berlin over to Cal next year, and Tunis to Meef
as
> >well. Thats a net loss of two, and I don't really see me gaining two, so
> >it'd be a case of switching one unit for another -- clearly a fleet is
what
> >I am contemplating.
> >
> >My question is this -- would me haveing one more fleet in any way offend?
> >I
> >would end up removing an army as a result, possibly two armies. Meef, I
> >guess you are the really concerned party. I am inclined to park a fleet
in
> >the Adriatic for "home Defense", if noone objects.
> >
> >Let me know!
>
> MY preference is that you stick to what you said you were going to do, but
> I'm willing to let Meef decide. He's the one who would be threatened by a
> fleet build. I CAN say that I would be unhappy with an army as you have
no
> real use for one.
>
> Cal
>
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal, We a have a rather disturbing message below. This is NOT the direction
I want to travel. Ideas on how to handle?
Meef
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Hi there Sultan!
>
> What are the chances that you and I aim to diminish Russias influence in
> this game? I am sure he trustes you more than me. Therefore, if I move to
> take StP in a few years he will move all he has to protect it, trusting
> you. That will leave you a great shot at Rum and Sev and maybe more. What
> do you think?
>
> all the best
>
> Christian, England
>
>
>
>
>
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
>Cal, We a have a rather disturbing message below. This is NOT the
>direction
>I want to travel. Ideas on how to handle?
Don't worry about it. I just got a message from England saying he was going
to do it.
Basically, England is with us against Chris, certainly for the time being.
Chris wrote him a letter saying that a Turkish stab of Russia was imminent
and he believed it. I told him that Chris was just doing his usual
pot-stirring and you and I were solid. He said he wanted to try a test of
your loyalty and he was going to ask you to stab me. I told him it wasn't
necessary, but he wanted to do it anyway. Whatever. Just more wheels
within wheels.
Tell him you're not interested, but tell him you MAY want to talk later
after Chris is down and out. That will keep him interested and we may be
able to take advantage of that.
Isn't this fun? <G>
Later,
Cal
Message from Turkey to England in 'ruffians':
Dear Christian,
Good to hear from u and hope the new family addition is doing well. The
last time we spoke we left a limited agreement to wear down the Austrian or
something to that effect. I REALLY want to continue along that vein. He's
one lying, backstabbing sob and would most enjoy seeing his demise. Even if
your shot is the one that gets him, that's alright with me. I am convinced
if i stab Russia, the last voices I hear will be Austrian before I enter
sheol. Bless u in finishing off the German.
Thoughts?
Meef
> Message from [email protected] as England to Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Hi there Sultan!
>
> What are the chances that you and I aim to diminish Russias influence in
> this game? I am sure he trustes you more than me. Therefore, if I move to
> take StP in a few years he will move all he has to protect it, trusting
> you. That will leave you a great shot at Rum and Sev and maybe more. What
> do you think?
>
> all the best
>
> Christian, England
>
>
>
>
>
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
fyi
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> :: Judge: USEF Game: Ruffians Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: F1913B Tue Feb 8 2000 04:19:52 PST
>
> Message sent to England:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to England in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Dear Christian,
>
> Good to hear from u and hope the new family addition is doing well. The
> last time we spoke we left a limited agreement to wear down the Austrian
or
> something to that effect. I REALLY want to continue along that vein.
He's
> one lying, backstabbing sob and would most enjoy seeing his demise. Even
if
> your shot is the one that gets him, that's alright with me. I am
convinced
> if i stab Russia, the last voices I hear will be Austrian before I enter
> sheol. Bless u in finishing off the German.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Meef
>
> > Message from [email protected] as England to Turkey in
> > 'ruffians':
> >
> >
> > Hi there Sultan!
> >
> > What are the chances that you and I aim to diminish Russias influence in
> > this game? I am sure he trustes you more than me. Therefore, if I move
to
> > take StP in a few years he will move all he has to protect it, trusting
> > you. That will leave you a great shot at Rum and Sev and maybe more.
What
> > do you think?
> >
> > all the best
> >
> > Christian, England
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> End of message.
>
> Adjustment orders for Winter of 1913. (ruffians.061)
>
> Turkey: Defaults, removing the fleet in the Aegean Sea.
>
>
> Orders not received for all units. If complete orders are not
> received by Tue Feb 8 2000 04:19:52 PST, you will be considered late.
> You will be considered abandoned if nothing is received by
> Fri Feb 11 2000 04:19:52 PST.
>
>
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Cal,
Got this message from Turkey. Seems like he is not stabbing you. Couldn't
you just build in War or Mos and "stab" Chris. He is going to die anyway,
isn't he? :)
all the best
Christian
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to England in 'ruffians':
>
>
>Dear Christian,
>
>Good to hear from u and hope the new family addition is doing well. The
>last time we spoke we left a limited agreement to wear down the Austrian or
>something to that effect. I REALLY want to continue along that vein. He's
>one lying, backstabbing sob and would most enjoy seeing his demise. Even if
>your shot is the one that gets him, that's alright with me. I am convinced
>if i stab Russia, the last voices I hear will be Austrian before I enter
>sheol. Bless u in finishing off the German.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Meef
>
>> Message from [email protected] as England to Turkey in
>> 'ruffians':
>>
>>
>> Hi there Sultan!
>>
>> What are the chances that you and I aim to diminish Russias influence in
>> this game? I am sure he trustes you more than me. Therefore, if I move to
>> take StP in a few years he will move all he has to protect it, trusting
>> you. That will leave you a great shot at Rum and Sev and maybe more. What
>> do you think?
>>
>> all the best
>>
>> Christian, England
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I cannot see why you have to convince Russia to build a northern fleet. If
you are going to attack him a SOUTHERN fleet would be better, wouldn't it?
Maybe that is not possible though. My guess is that Cal is building StP
anyway. OK, so you promise to give me any German centers I need to stop the
Russian bear in the north. Good enough, but aren't you afraid I will walk
south into the Med? Or do you still threaten to give the victory away to
Turkey (of all!!) if I sail south?
Comments?
all the best
Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Cal,
I cannot see why you couldn't just comply with Chris demand and build a
fleet StP south coast. You can always claim a north coast would be too
obvious. And, a fleet SOUTH could be used against Chris Germany.
all the best
Christian
Message from Russia to England and Turkey in
'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
>'ruffians':
(Meef, you might want to read the quoted text at the bottom before you read
my message)
Christian:
I guess I can assume that you didn't mean to send this to me? Usually, I
don't point it out when someone makes mistakes like this, figuring I can use
it to my advantage, but this time it's different. I think this is a good
example of what Chris is doing to the whole board.
As you know, Turkey passes me some of the more inflammatory stuff Chris
writes, so I have a good idea of what's being said. Your mis-sent
communication just adds to my total picture.
Here's what Chris is doing:
1) He's writing to me to demand I build northern fleets to stop you from
winning. He is offering me Berlin and Denmark and threatening to throw the
game to you.
2) He's trying to get Turkey to stab me and is offering the Turk Tunis and
more centres to the west (as well as mine) to do so and is ALSO threatening
to throw the game to you.
3) He's is trying to get you to attack me up north and is offering to give
you German centres to support this attack and is threatening to throw the
game to Turkey.
Gentleman, he is trying to play us all for suckers in an attempt to get us
at each other's throats. Okay, so that IS the point of the game, but I
think we'd better turn it back on him by NOT FALLING FOR WHAT HE IS SAYING!
Christian, Meef and I have been playing the waiting game, looking for an
opening to take Chris out. We are not in a position to do so just yet but,
with Turkey in the Ion, it's probably just a matter of time. Obviously, you
are worried about Chris's threats or you would be in the Med by now. I
think it's time we all worked together to frustrate his plans and take him
out. After that, we can either settle for a 3-way draw or let the chips
settle where they may. We can decide that when the time comes, but it's
pretty clear what we need to do now. Work against Chris.
Let's come to an agreement that we will not open fronts against each other.
I will need to build that fleet I told you about Christian, in order to keep
Chris offguard, but it will ONLY be used against the German mainland and
will disband as soon as is tactically feasible. Christian, you will try to
take the French centres from Germany and put him out in preparation for an
attack on Austrian holding without moving into the Med or against Russia's
north. Meef, you will move through the Med only as far as is need to
infiltrate Austria's lines and take what centres or provinces as will weaken
Austria.
Once Austria is down, we either end the game there or continue on to
whatever result this game holds.
How does this sound to everyone?
Cal
(Meef, the following is a message mistakenly sent to me by England, but
intended for Austria)
>Chris,
>
>I cannot see why you have to convince Russia to build a northern fleet. If
>you are going to attack him a SOUTHERN fleet would be better, wouldn't it?
>Maybe that is not possible though. My guess is that Cal is building StP
>anyway. OK, so you promise to give me any German centers I need to stop the
>Russian bear in the north. Good enough, but aren't you afraid I will walk
>south into the Med? Or do you still threaten to give the victory away to
>Turkey (of all!!) if I sail south?
>
>Comments?
>
>all the best
>Christian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message from England to Turkey and Russia in 'ruffians':
Ehum, I feel like a schoolboy caught in some naughty act :)
Anyway, t seems like my mistake proved good for us in some strange way.
What you are saying Cal seems wise. I have so far never even pondered
letting Chris off the hook, and I will never do so in the future. So far me
and Chris hasn't told each other the truth for the whole game...Yes Cal,
build your fleet. As I said before to you, we need to be careful when
taking Austria our or you two will be anxious about me getting a solo. As I
told you Cal, that is also why I didn't move into Med last turn. Anyway, I
hope me talking to the enemy doesn't mean our little threeway alliance
can't continue to work?
all the best
Christian
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
Gents,
Just back from NJersey. Ok meef -- no worries. I will waive the build.
Just so we are clear, Cal, you are building StP (nc) (NOT SC!) and Meef, you
are pulling F black?
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia, Turkey and Master in 'ruffians':
Umm, what is the command for waiving a build? Build Waive?
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal, what did we decide my disband should be?
Meef
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:46 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Gents,
>
> Just back from NJersey. Ok meef -- no worries. I will waive the build.
>
> Just so we are clear, Cal, you are building StP (nc) (NOT SC!)
> and Meef, you
> are pulling F black?
>
> Chris
>
>
Message from Master to Austria, Russia and Turkey in 'ruffians':
"Waive" suffices.
Rick
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Just so we are clear, Cal, you are building StP (nc) (NOT SC!) and Meef,
you
> are pulling F black?
Chris: you, along with a note from Christian this morning, put me in an
untenable situation (so what else is new?)
He has stated that, if I build a fleet in St Pete's north coast, he will
send all his naval power north to pop that fleet. You now tell me I can't
build in the south coast. Sigh. Maybe I should just build an army instead?
Seriously though, I think that, given the threat from England, I should
build whatever fleet I can. I can use a south coast fleet to bluff him that
I am attacking you. He has said he will accept that. I can always follow
it up next year with a fleet on the north coast when I'm ready for an
all-out attack.
Comments?
Cal
Message from Russia to England and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Turkey and
> Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Ehum, I feel like a schoolboy caught in some naughty act :)
Hey, in this kind of game, everyone writes to everyone. It's expected...
d;-})
> Anyway, t seems like my mistake proved good for us in some strange way.
> What you are saying Cal seems wise. I have so far never even pondered
> letting Chris off the hook, and I will never do so in the future. So far
me
> and Chris hasn't told each other the truth for the whole game...Yes Cal,
> build your fleet. As I said before to you, we need to be careful when
> taking Austria our or you two will be anxious about me getting a solo. As
I
> told you Cal, that is also why I didn't move into Med last turn. Anyway, I
> hope me talking to the enemy doesn't mean our little threeway alliance
> can't continue to work?
No, of course not. While it certainly makes me wary (what doesn't in this
game?), I think it simply served to illustrate what Chris is trying to do.
Now that we're all wise to his "I'll promise you the world if you just
attack somebody else!" routine, we can use it to our advantage. Let's just
all work towards the goal of taking Austria out as a factor in the game and
we can then play the game to its natural conclusion ourselves.
Your point about Turkey and I hving concerns about your ability to solo is
valid, but if we make sure the division of centres is fair and keep in mind
the long term strategic position, we should be fine. Let's all make sure we
voice any concerns we might have about one another's position, okay?
Later,
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal, what did we decide my disband should be?
>
> Meef
Damn, I'm in the middle of setting up a new computer and don't have the
board handy. I think it was F Smy, no?
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
do you mean this email?
<<Message from [email protected] as England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Cal,
I cannot see why you couldn't just comply with Chris demand and build a
fleet StP south coast. You can always claim a north coast would be too
obvious. And, a fleet SOUTH could be used against Chris Germany.
all the best
Christian>>
:)
Oh, those judge newbies!
Anyway, he can hardly pull all his fleets north, can he, with Turkey and I
steaming towards Gibralter? in point of fact, he only has two fleets in the
area, nowhere near the number needed to "Pop" you -- AND you will be
building again next year -- and we did specifically discuss F StP (nc).
The fact is that a fleet on the SC can really only be used against me, or
Paul, and not Christian. His six fleets are strung out from Marsailles to
Skag, and he cant handle 3 fronts. NC forces him to defend NWG and Norway,
and he doesn't have the power to do that, AND hold Gibraltar.
I am waiving that build!
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Not sure what use f bla is gonna do for us. We can cover bul w/ support
from aeg and rum. Smy is closer to the objective. Am I missing something
here?
Meef
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:49 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
>
>
> This Diplomacy Adjudicator sponsored by David Kovar.
> Report JUDGE Problems to [email protected]
> Report problems with individual games to your GM.
>
> Please do NOT run RT games on this judge.
>
> ***********************************************************
> Any unmoderated games on this judge will be removed.
> (I.e., if you don't have a master, the game is in jeopardy.
> if in doubt, send a list <gamename>)
> ***********************************************************
>
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
> > Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
> >
> >
> > Cal, what did we decide my disband should be?
> >
> > Meef
>
> Damn, I'm in the middle of setting up a new computer and don't have the
> board handy. I think it was F Smy, no?
>
> Cal
>
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> Cal,
>
> Not sure what use f bla is gonna do for us. We can cover bul w/ support
> from aeg and rum. Smy is closer to the objective. Am I missing something
> here?
Just me not having a board set up. I was thinking about Rumania in case
Chris gets pissed off at my South Coast build. Do what you think is best as
I have to leave for work now. <g>
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal,
>
> do you mean this email?
Laff! Yup, that's the latest, although it is one of a series.
> Oh, those judge newbies!
> Anyway, he can hardly pull all his fleets north, can he, with Turkey and I
> steaming towards Gibralter? in point of fact, he only has two fleets in
the
> area, nowhere near the number needed to "Pop" you -- AND you will be
> building again next year -- and we did specifically discuss F StP (nc).
>
> The fact is that a fleet on the SC can really only be used against me, or
> Paul, and not Christian. His six fleets are strung out from Marsailles to
> Skag, and he cant handle 3 fronts. NC forces him to defend NWG and
Norway,
> and he doesn't have the power to do that, AND hold Gibraltar.
>
> I am waiving that build!
Well, you missed the earlier, more frantic ones that implied he wouldn't
care if you guys came around the Med if he had to punish me (really,
throwing this game seems to be becoming a recurring theme in parts... ;-) )
I'll have to think about it. If I do build on the SC, try not to worry. I
am VERY aware of that sea of red just to the west of Warsaw...
Cal
(heading off to work now so don't freak if I don't answer right away... <g>)
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
The contractors accidentally pulled the plug on my CPU earlier -- did you
get a message from me?
I know you are concerned with my potential for growth. I am concerned with
yours as well! Lets talk about a way we can work together, rather than
fight each other, ok?
My first suggestion is that you pull back to the three-fleet line holding
the MAO against all southerners, and concentrate on mopping up Scandinavia.
I am not opposed to swapping out coastal German Centers for inland French
ones -- Paris and Marsailles for Berlin/Keil?
Something to think about, anyway.
Best,
Chris