| Press for Fall of 1912 in ruffians |
Movement
Message from Russia to England, Germany and Turkey in
'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Germany to England, Russia and Turkey in
>'ruffians':
>
>A huge dose of humility has been dealt to me,
>and now I either work with you or (implicitly) allow Austria to win.
I'm afraid I've heard variations on this exact sentence for the last three
straight seasons. Please pardon my skepticism...
Cal
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris:
Think. If I would have gotten your support into War last season,
but betrayed
you with the Army Hol, it would have been easy for you to retaliate by
not supporting me in War this Fall.
It wasn't very easy for me to stab you last season; almost
impossible. For you to
doubt my veracity was simply bullshit; you had no intention of
cooperating no matter
what, did you?
Bye, bye.
Paul
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
>Do you really think eliminating Paul will give me a solo? I just don't see
>it. I am NOT trying to be clever or deceptive here. When I pulled out of
>the MAO I gave up any chance (IMO) of a solo.
>
>I really want to know what you think about this -- I am trying to engineer a
>three way draw.
A solo might just be in your reach if Paul continue to always trust you.
The reason is because then he will harm me enough before he is eliminated
so that you might be able to sneak out into MAO again.
Anyway, as for now I cannot see it happening within a few moves so I am all
for supporting you against Paul if nothing else to make him disband units
in the vincinity of my little island.
I am also trying to engineer a threeway (draw that is) but sometimes it
pays to be a bit paranoid.
all the best
/Christian
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
>> By convoying A Lon-Hol myself, I free your F Eng to move to Mao.
You can
>> have F Spa sc support F Mao-Wms and finally enter into the Med theatre.
>> My A Pie can try sneaking into Tus.
This would also be the case if you had convoyed London to Belguim with my
help last turn. That was also why I bounced in WES, now I am in Spain and
can support MAO-WES and cover MAO with ENG. I will also move NRG-Edi.
Sorry if I seemed to harsch last night.
all the best
/Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> 'ruffians':
>
> >> By convoying A Lon-Hol myself, I free your F Eng to move to Mao.
> You can
> >> have F Spa sc support F Mao-Wms and finally enter into the Med theatre.
> >> My A Pie can try sneaking into Tus.
> This would also be the case if you had convoyed London to Belguim with my
> help last turn. That was also why I bounced in WES, now I am in Spain and
> can support MAO-WES and cover MAO with ENG. I will also move NRG-Edi.
>
> Sorry if I seemed to harsch last night.
>
> All is fine by me. You were polite by my standards!
Paul
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
>> Sorry if I seemed to harsch last night.
>>
>> All is fine by me. You were polite by my standards!
OK, so we're on this time?
/Christian
Message from Austria to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
Friday, I was with you. Over the weekend, I thought about it too much.
Your unit in Livonia was dead anyway. I had just stabbed you hard. It was
my own distrusting nature that set me up. I just said to myself, he
wouldn't REALLY do that, would he? He's just trying to set me up.
You may have heard of Smacko (Mike) McMille, a player on The Old Republic,
and occasionally F2F. He's got my number, and one of the things he has done
in the past is set up moves that would be to my benefit, as well as his, and
then stab me anyway. So I am doubly wary of that, though now that I think
of it, it's what I have done to you, isn't it?
Hhhhhhhh. Well, that's the game. I was at work last night, and as I walked
home through the sub-zero temps I thought to myself, "If only. It would
have been a beautiful thing, and we would have HAD to stick together. Now,
everyone hates me, and I'll be lucky to end in a four way. We could have
gone for a two way, and maybe He or I would have stabbed for the solo, but
NOW, MAN do I have a tough row to hoe, and I laid it out myself."
Or words to that effect. I misjudged you as a player, and looking down the
road, I think it is going to cost me. John Quarto and I play F2F fairly
regularly, and he says this is one of the things that keeps me from being
REALLY good at the game. Ah, sweet mystery of life.
Best,
Chris
Message from Germany to Austria in 'ruffians':
John Quarto and I play F2F fairly regularly, and he says this is one of the
things that keeps me from being REALLY good at the game. Ah, sweet mystery of
life.
Yeah, I stay away from F2F if I can; I save my "poker face" for poker!
Paul
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
You are right, if Paul just rolls over for me, and doesn't fight me at all,
I guess I'd have a shot.
However, I think I have used all of my considerable finesse up on that last
set of moves. I don't think he'd get out of the way of a train if I was the
one who told him it was coming, at this point! ;)
Ok, so can we DMZ the Westmed, for now? Eventually we might want to set up
some sort of stalemate, but I need those fleets for containment of Turkey
right now. Boy, I miss-played that, didn't I. I shoulda known better, too.
Best,
Chris
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
Christian:
All is as I promised you it would be (A Lon-Nth-Hol supported by F
Bel,
A Pic-Bur, A Pie-Tus, F Den-Kie, A Pru-Ber). If you wanted to you could
walk
into Bre and Mar, but I'd rather you didn't.
I've given up on Chris as a partner; maybe he'll be more useful as
a target?
Paul
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
Yes, we can DMZ the WES. I will be going for a long shot at Brest and London.
If we arrange this quickly, I guess you can convince one of Turkey/Russia
to take the other out for a three-way. I guess convincing Turkey would be
easiest but Russia would be best.
Anyway, what was the exakt plan to take Piedemont out?
My map might be wrongly updated but I cannot see it be 100% as for now?
(I've got a stupid map-program that seem to do somethings wrong once in a
while).
/Christian
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
I will not go for Brest and Marseilles of two important reasons.
1) I can probably not build for them anyway (as I will be in Edi and you
own London)
2) I will have a really bad position with all fleets on the mainland.
all the best
/Christian
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
Ok, by my map, I have armies in Tyrolia and Venice, and a fleet in Tyhr.
Your fleet is in Spain (SC), and Paul's army is in piedmont.
So, I support an army to Piedmont, and move the fleet to Tuscany. You move
the fleet to Marsailles, and he should be popped -- and you may get
Marsailles in the process..
So, may I ask what Paul is telling you? Will he be convoying to belgium?
And, if you can work on Cal, that cant hurt!
Chris
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Yes, Chris, I got the new positions right from the judge and set it up
again. I will be moving to Marseilles.
Paul tells me he is convoying to Holland and supporting that with F Bel.
I am trying to get Cal to agree that a threeway is good. It�s up to you to
make it sure he doesn't mean threeway RET. :)
all the best
/Christian
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
Ok, I have thought about it alot. I think maybe giving you greece is
actually the way to go here. I don't want to guess with Cal about
Serbia/budapest. So I am thinking I could support Greece to Serbia, and let
you have Greece.
This gives you two builds. I ask that you build two armies. If you can do
this, I will support you against Russia, and move my fleets to the other end
of the Med, to set up a stalemate line with England. It would be quite a
coup for you, I think, to end this game in the draw -- Turkey has been on
the ropes for such a long time now. I love to see tough play like you (and
the turks before you) have shown.
Can you see this game ending in a T/E/A draw? Would that be something we
could start working on at this point?
I could always risk it with Cal, and support Greece to hold. Then I might
or might not have to pull. I'd rather we started an alliance, even if it
costs me a center, though. I am sure I dont need to say it, but if you
agree to this, and then build a fleet, I will do my level best to make sure
that you don't profit thereby.
What do you think? Can you deal with me, now that I just have the 3 fleets,
and another Naval power to worry about?
Best,
Chris
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Any thoughts on how to reply to this proposal by Austria. I am not into
lying in dip. If I lie to him and make him mad, he'll have a blood
vengeance against me indefinitely, and he carries one whale of a punch right
now.
Meef
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
Ok, I have thought about it alot. I think maybe giving you greece is
actually the way to go here. I don't want to guess with Cal about
Serbia/budapest. So I am thinking I could support Greece to Serbia, and let
you have Greece.
This gives you two builds. I ask that you build two armies. If you can do
this, I will support you against Russia, and move my fleets to the other end
of the Med, to set up a stalemate line with England. It would be quite a
coup for you, I think, to end this game in the draw -- Turkey has been on
the ropes for such a long time now. I love to see tough play like you (and
the turks before you) have shown.
Can you see this game ending in a T/E/A draw? Would that be something we
could start working on at this point?
I could always risk it with Cal, and support Greece to hold. Then I might
or might not have to pull. I'd rather we started an alliance, even if it
costs me a center, though. I am sure I dont need to say it, but if you
agree to this, and then build a fleet, I will do my level best to make sure
that you don't profit thereby.
What do you think? Can you deal with me, now that I just have the 3 fleets,
and another Naval power to worry about?
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal,
> Any thoughts on how to reply to this proposal by Austria. I am not into
> lying in dip. If I lie to him and make him mad, he'll have a blood
> vengeance against me indefinitely, and he carries one whale of a punch
right
> now.
>
> Meef
Man, that sounds so much like what he writes to me. Here's a sample:
<<Actually, where I come from, DMZ's mean De-militarized Zones, and no
armies
go there. I somehow doubt you misunderstood this. Still and all, I have
kinda passed up the opportunity to contest that, haven't I?>>
<<As for Paul, I have to say that the Idea was a good one -- I could have
supported him into Warsaw, bounced you in Ukraine, and had an army in Edi --
I would have enjoyed that, but I really didn't see it as a long-term
winner.>>
<<I came this close to doing it though -- but I thought, classic prisoners
dilema -- if I go through, and he doesn't, I look like an idiot --- it'd be
cool if I did do it, but really, not quite cool enough to take the chance.
Germany is now a corpse, with just a little twitching left in it.>>
<<I think we really need to start thinking 3 way here, and that means
getting
Turkey out of the picture. Right? Talk to me, here, let me know what you
think!>>
========================================================
I wouldn't worry about making a blood enemy out of Chris. He has more to
worry about than taking out vengeance on anyone. There's too much going on
that he has to worry about. Besides, he'll have me to worry about as well.
What I always tell him when he says these things is that I will follow up on
the moves he suggests and then if I feel it will benefit me, I do it. I'd
suggest you tell him that you think he should support himself from Greece
into Serbia. That will make it seem like you are willing to consider
working against MY best interests. I'd rather you build a fleet and an
army, but tell him you'll build two armies. Whatever works.
Comments?
Cal
signof
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, I cannot commit to building 2 armies. Say u pull one of your, "oh, I
changed my mind" deals again and I am stuck with 2 armies down in that hole.
Comments?
Mikal,
Ok, I have thought about it alot. I think maybe giving you greece is
actually the way to go here. I don't want to guess with Cal about
Serbia/budapest. So I am thinking I could support Greece to Serbia, and let
you have Greece.
This gives you two builds. I ask that you build two armies. If you can do
this, I will support you against Russia, and move my fleets to the other end
of the Med, to set up a stalemate line with England. It would be quite a
coup for you, I think, to end this game in the draw -- Turkey has been on
the ropes for such a long time now. I love to see tough play like you (and
the turks before you) have shown.
Can you see this game ending in a T/E/A draw? Would that be something we
could start working on at this point?
I could always risk it with Cal, and support Greece to hold. Then I might
or might not have to pull. I'd rather we started an alliance, even if it
costs me a center, though. I am sure I dont need to say it, but if you
agree to this, and then build a fleet, I will do my level best to make sure
that you don't profit thereby.
What do you think? Can you deal with me, now that I just have the 3 fleets,
and another Naval power to worry about?
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> Actually, where I come from, DMZ's mean De-militarized Zones, and no
armies
> go there. I somehow doubt you misunderstood this. Still and all, I have
> kinda passed up the opportunity to contest that, haven't I?
Well, we each believe what we want to... <G> Anyway, it was the phrasing
you used that made me think what I did. Wish I had the e-mail...
> As for Paul, I have to say that the Idea was a good one -- I could have
> supported him into Warsaw, bounced you in Ukraine, and had an army in
Edi --
> I would have enjoyed that, but I really didn't see it as a long-term
winner.
Nope. Someone has be the next to leave the table and Paul just got too cute
for his own good. That MHO, of course.
> I think we really need to start thinking 3 way here, and that means
getting
> Turkey out of the picture. Right? Talk to me, here, let me know what you
> think!
Sorry to take so long to answer this, but I wanted to think about it first.
Unfortunately, I still can't think of any reason to trust you and not
Turkey. You have solved your Prisoner's Dilemma, but there still the matter
of that Catch-22. With Germany out, it effectively leaves three powers;
England, Austria and the R/T conglomerate. Neither of us are going to be
dumb enough to stab the other because it leaves you easy pickings on the
survivor. The down side is that it turns the end game into a four-way draw
which sucks. I'm going to see how it plays out before committing to
anything. I'll let YOU figure out the Catch-22...
Later,
Cal
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
fyi
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RE: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, I cannot commit to building 2 armies. Say u pull one of your, "oh, I
changed my mind" deals again and I am stuck with 2 armies down in that hole.
Comments?
Mikal,
Ok, I have thought about it alot. I think maybe giving you greece is
actually the way to go here. I don't want to guess with Cal about
Serbia/budapest. So I am thinking I could support Greece to Serbia, and let
you have Greece.
This gives you two builds. I ask that you build two armies. If you can do
this, I will support you against Russia, and move my fleets to the other end
of the Med, to set up a stalemate line with England. It would be quite a
coup for you, I think, to end this game in the draw -- Turkey has been on
the ropes for such a long time now. I love to see tough play like you (and
the turks before you) have shown.
Can you see this game ending in a T/E/A draw? Would that be something we
could start working on at this point?
I could always risk it with Cal, and support Greece to hold. Then I might
or might not have to pull. I'd rather we started an alliance, even if it
costs me a center, though. I am sure I dont need to say it, but if you
agree to this, and then build a fleet, I will do my level best to make sure
that you don't profit thereby.
What do you think? Can you deal with me, now that I just have the 3 fleets,
and another Naval power to worry about?
Best,
Chris
End of message.
Movement orders for Fall of 1912. (ruffians.055)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea -> Constantinople.
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Greece.
Turkey: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea -> Greece.
You have set 'wait' status so orders will not be processed
before Fri Jan 21 2000 23:30:00 PST.
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
> Message sent to Austria:
>
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Chris, I cannot commit to building 2 armies. Say u pull one of your, "oh,
I
> changed my mind" deals again and I am stuck with 2 armies down in that
hole.
>
> Comments?
>
>
> Mikal,
Good response. Wonder how he'll react?
Cal
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
ME pull one of those "Hey I changed my mind" things? Aren't YOU the one who
I got out of the hole when Russia said, "nope, sorry I got nothing to say to
you."? didn't you turn on me when I was ready to go with you against
Russia?
Short memory? I havent forgotten any of that. I can HOLD greece, and I
will we cant come to some sort of accomadation. In fact, holding Greece is
the only thing that is going to keep you from being a threat to Tunis,
Naples and beyond, IF you build another fleet at this juncture. Do you have
a counter-offer?
I am not asking you to attack Cal now. I am asking you to agree to build to
NOT immediately threaten me. Why is that so much to ask?
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Okay, I did get out of the prisoners dilemma, only to find myself in a catch
22. but it ISNT a catch 22 after all, and I will tell you why.
<dons hat, opens suitcase "The AMAZING MARTINI", and pulls out cane>
You see, the exit of Germany from the board is really to the long term
advantage of Three players. In order of importance, they are England,
Austria, and Russia -- its really only bad for Turkey for him to be gone.
Now, I hope that you agree with me so far but you may be doubting me when I
say that England is the foremost beneficiary of the downfall of the Kaiser.
Simply look at the Supply Centers that will be exchanged, and observe:
Munich and Kiel to Austria, net gain 2!
Brest, London, Belgium, Denmark to England, net gain 4!
Russia gains in the same way Austria does, by not having Germany's armies
around to worry about.
Ah, and here you say is the rub -- Germany's armies are gone, but they are
replaced by Austrian ones! Ok, you have a point, and a good one, but let me
continue!
England will be gaining 4, and but we haven't discussed the disposition of
Paris, Marsailles, or Holland - 3 centers that Austria could contest. To do
this, Austria will need 4, possibly 5 armies in the French area, as well as
garrison units to hold off the Turkish/russian forces. A quick check finds
that Austria has only 8 armies, and 4 of them are south of Munich, and
unlikely to get to France. So, one of two things will happen -- Either
Austria will strip his defenses of his home SC's to garner French ones, OR
England will pick up another 3 sc's!
Thats 7 new SC's for England, bringing him to a total of :13.
13!?! you say? That's ridiculous! But is it? Take another look at the
board, and realize that England, not Austria will likely get the lions share
of German SC's.
A 13 center England is a MUCH different animal than a 6 center England who
has lost a home center. Also note that England already HAS a unit in the
Med, F Spain SC, and it is unlikely that anyone will be able to kick him
out.
Which means that a line will have to be drawn at
Tunis/Tyhr/Tuscany/Piedmont. Now, as it stands, the most likely candidate
for this is Austria. He has the men, he has the material. But wait, you
see that Turkey, with his three (soon to be four and possibly FIVE) fleet
armada, prevents Austria from commiting the fleets he needs to stop
England -- he will be lucky to keep anything south of Trieste/Venice!
Now, Russia, with the ability to build Fleets in StPete, is ESSENTIAL to
stoping England from a solo, by tying his units up north of France. (I
think we've covered this territory before, haventy we? Austria NEEDS Russia
to stop England, repeat as necessary -- really, I hadn't ever forgoten it.)
But, you ask, Where will Russia gain the SC's to build Fleets in the north?
The logical answer, the only answer that makes sense given the soon-to-be
explosive re-surgence of England, is Turkey must go. He must go so that
Austria can send his fleets to the other end of the Med. He must go so that
Russia can build the units needed to hold england off in the north. AND
here is the tricky bit, he has to go FAST.
Done correctly, england will gain two this year -- Brest and London. (Trust
Germany to convoy London to Holland through the north sea, with Belgium
supporting.) England will try to walk into both SC's, and if Germany
doesnt' move Piedmont -> Marsailles, England will be up three, with one or
two centers to build in -- Liverpool and (maybe) edi. F Liverpool will be
making a beeline for the Med, you can count on that. An Army may be built
in Edi, to be convoyed to the continent after the North Sea is re-captured.
You can see the shape of that as easily as I can. I don't believe that you
and Turkey can take me down fast enough to get Russian armies in Germany and
Turkish fleets to Tunis, before there are too many English fleets in the
water.
I submit to you that it is in your best interest to work with Austria-- with
safeguards, to be sure. Russia should take German centers behind Austria, as
Austria advances into French ones. This will give the pair a little jump on
the F StPete (either coast) situation. If the Ukraine/ Galicia corridor
remains clear, and both have garrison units, then the potential of a stab is
practically nil, both being on the lookout for it. Tackling a 4 center
Turkey isn't going to be easy, it never has been, but at this point all his
fleets are tied to the coast, which WOULD give Austira the ability to back
door him, IF the russian threat could be averted.
In Fact, the BEST action would be for Russia to support A Greece ->
Bulgaria, Keeping Turkey at 3. With Austria's fleet trieste coming to
albania in the fall, and Army Budapest moving to Serbia, Russia could be
guaranteed of takeing Bulgaria next year, and with a move to Sev now,
Turkey's defences would crumble.
Russia should gain Bulgaria, con, and Ank, and build a F in Sev to hold the
black sea and guarantee that the 2 balkan and 2 Turkish centers would be
safe from Austrian agression. In dire straights, that fleet could come out
to help hold the Ionian.
That's a lot to think about, but I think if you looked at the game from the
outside, you would come to the same conclusions. The correct alliance
structure NOW is R/A vs E/T -- but don't expect E or T to figure that out in
time to help each other. And that assumes that England wont run Germany as
a Toady -- then things are actually worse than stated above!
Let me know what you think,
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
<<
It would appear that our common cause is Germany, then. Cal, could we agree
to DMZ Galicia and Ukraine? Galicia for you, Ukraine for me? If niether of
us is staging anything there, we can both breath a little easier. I will
Vacate Silesia as soon as possible, but that might be a year from now, I am
not sure.>>
I see what you mean -- Galicia, you stay out of but I could go into, Ukraine
vice -versa.
Poor wording. Of course I MEANT, that dmzing Galicia would be good for you,
and Ukraine would be good for me. Silly old Chris!
Chris
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, how about I build one fleet and one army? Is that accommodating
enough?
MiKaL
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Diplomacy notice: ruffians
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
ME pull one of those "Hey I changed my mind" things? Aren't YOU the one who
I got out of the hole when Russia said, "nope, sorry I got nothing to say to
you."? didn't you turn on me when I was ready to go with you against
Russia?
Short memory? I havent forgotten any of that. I can HOLD greece, and I
will we cant come to some sort of accomadation. In fact, holding Greece is
the only thing that is going to keep you from being a threat to Tunis,
Naples and beyond, IF you build another fleet at this juncture. Do you have
a counter-offer?
I am not asking you to attack Cal now. I am asking you to agree to build to
NOT immediately threaten me. Why is that so much to ask?
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal
One fleet and one army to do what? How about one army and Waive a build, so
you can Make sure what is going to happen next?
If I do this, I will be moving A Greece to Serbia and F Tri -> Albania (the
fleet move is happening anyway.) This would, of course, put me in position
to re-take greece if you did build two fleets -- Or, it would put me in
position to send fleets to the Westmed, if you didn't.
If you were in charge of All our forces -- Turkish AND Austrian -- what
would you do with them next year, assuming we were working together against
Russia, with the goal being to get Turkey the builds?
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
CAL!
Dont ignore me, man! I put my heart into that email. at least let me know
you got it!
Chris
Adjustments
Broadcast message from Italy in 'ruffians':
Is this the long awaited turning point?! Will Austria from now on crumble?
We think so, we HOPE so, WE BELIEVE SO!
The Pope
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
High fives, partner! THAT was a good turn! You get two builds and, for the
first time in a decade, there are no foreign units on Russian soil! Let's
keep that up.
I want your thoughts on some long term policy. With England's resurrection
and Germany's hopefully imminent demise, we need to think about what happens
next. Specifically, what do we do about Austria? I'm worried that, if we
take him completely down, we give the game to an England that can expand to
fill the board faster than we can replace Austrian forward units.
I've offered Chris a deal. He continues to hold off E/G in Germany and
France and we avoid taking his home centres. I told him I want a centre or
two from Germany and I will use them to build northern fleets. If he goes
for it, you can probably stick to fleet builds, head through the Med and
take Naples and Tunis on your way through. This will hold him in check and
let us have him surounded if he was to get out of hand again.
If he DOESN'T go for this, then we have to face all those red units turning
east. The good part about that is that he probably won't make many gains
before England cripples him from behind. The bad part is that England will
probably win the game because of it. I think Chris is smart enough to
realize he isn't dealing from a position of strength anymore. I'm hoping
you agree with my offer to him and we can present a united front regarding
the deal.
Comments?
Cal
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
> CAL!
>
> Dont ignore me, man! I put my heart into that email. at least let me
know
> you got it!
And a lovely piece of writing it was. I just wanted to see how this turn
played out before responding. I do that sometimes when it can save me from
having to tell petty lies, as you've no doubt noticed.
I've thought it over and I'm inclined to accept your proposal, or at least
parts of it.
It IS obvious that to try to eliminate you would give the game to England.
In fact, I discussed this with Turkey two seasons ago. At the same time
however, I need a source of builds in order to acquire some northern fleets.
The obvious first choice would be to take Turkish centres but, as I've
belaboured ad nauseum, stabbing Turkey would a) leave me open to your
attacks while virtually fleetless in the south, and b) rob me of an ally I
feel I can trust (a pitifully rare commodity in this game).
I've decided I am NOT going to stab Turkey. This may possibly resign us to
a four-way draw, but sobeit. I think this game has a LOT more play to it
than that.
This leaves you with a decision: do you turn and head east to seek vengeance
against me and let England and what's left of Germany chew you up from
behind or do you try to seek some sort of deal with Turkey and I? I hope
the latter because I am willing to make a deal.
You offered to let me follow you through Germany and pick up a couple of
centres. The stipulation was that I use those builds for northern fleets.
I'm willing to do that if the offer is still open. Implicit in that deal,
obviously, is that I don't try to make any gains in the Austrian homeland.
That's all I can offer right now. My thinking is that, even if you declare
Holy War against me and head east with everything, I can probably hold you
off just long enough for E/G to deplete you from behind. Sure, while I may
hold you off, but I'd probably have to concede the game to England in that
event. Not an optimum solution so that's why I'm willing make the deal.
Comments?
Cal
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Italy in 'ruffians':
>
> Is this the long awaited turning point?! Will Austria from now on crumble?
> We think so, we HOPE so, WE BELIEVE SO!
>
> The Pope
Hard to say. I keep thinking, "Only the good die young..."
Cal White
Rising tsar...
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
Pravda October 1912: Dateline Moscow
The Russian government was pleased to announce to the peoples of the
Motherland that all foreign troops had been driven from Russian soil for the
first time in at least a decade.
With the destruction of the last German army and the march on the Austrian
homeland, Russia can once again raise her head proudly among the remaining
powers of Europe.
The Russian government also wishes to salute the Head of State for the
Ottoman Empire. While Russia has endured many years of tyrannical oppresion
by the former leaders of her neighbour to the south, it is most pleasing to
note that sanity has finally prevailed among the Ottoman's.
Government Leader Cal of the White Russians was quoted as saying, "Now if
the sanity would just spread to the damned Austrians and the English stay
the course southward, we'll be okay". He added later that the
afore-mentioned sanity was not expected to have any effect on the German
leader, now holed up in his Fuehrerbunker somewhere fondly ogling pictures
of Austrian women and reminiscing about "the good old days"...
Message from Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
I thought I'd send this to both of you, since you seem to be so sucessfully
operating as one country! :)
I am ready to deal. As long as Greece and Bulgaria remain un-occupied by
armies, and Galicia is DMZ'd this spring, then I am ready to try, by god,
for a RAT threeway.
Congratulations on finding each other in the storm . . . (it's fiercely cold
here in NYC)
Chris
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
Christian:
Do you have some sort of phobia against moving into the Med?
Paul
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
I just felt I couldn't trust you anymore. You kind of burned the last
bridges last turn.
Anway, now that we are even we might get some work done. I suggest a truce
making us able to stop the up-coming ART. The problem right now is your
fleet in Nth. Obviously I have to bounce myself in Nwy (or go there with
support) , which means I cannot attack Denmark. I suggest that you move:
Nth-Hel
Hol-Ruh
Bel-Hol
Bur S A Hol-Ruh
Den-Nth
I will then move:
Edi-Nth (which I will build now) (bounce with your fleet Denmark)
Lpl-Yor (which I will build now)
Lon-Eng
MAO-NAf
NAO-MAO
Ska-Nwy
Swe S Ska-Nwy
Mar stands
This gives that if you move to London with Nth you cannot also be in Nth
while I'll be in Eng and Yor thus capturing it back. Also it gives us the
opportunity to get Kiel and/or Munich back depending on what Chris decides
to do.
Think of it and let me know! We are past petty lies now, I am serious in my
suggestion.
all the best
Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I hope we are OK though your broadcasting (by means of Cal!) seems just a
tiny bit anti-English.
I am quite sure that after Germany is gone it will be easy convincing Cal
and Turkey of a fourway. Harder might be to get a threeway as it seems
right now. Is Turkey maybe willing to attack Russia? The good thing about T
attacking R would be that we could all participate in the attack and take
him out quickly!
comments?
all the best
Christian
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Cal,
I hope your real intentions are not to build northern fleets? I thought we
got along fine at the moment? I even vacated Nwy for you!
I am not interested of trying to take anyone more than Germany out, after
that I will agree with any DIAS. Take your chances to grow on Austrias
behalf until Paul is out!
Let me know your thoughts!
all the best
Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
Christian:
It is too late for me to feel very upset about anything. I just want to
see SOMEBODY try to stop Austria, and it looks like Russia has lost interest in
even
doing that.
I will move as you outline below.
Paul
>
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Paul,
>
> I just felt I couldn't trust you anymore. You kind of burned the last
> bridges last turn.
>
> Anway, now that we are even we might get some work done. I suggest a truce
> making us able to stop the up-coming ART. The problem right now is your
> fleet in Nth. Obviously I have to bounce myself in Nwy (or go there with
> support) , which means I cannot attack Denmark. I suggest that you move:
> Nth-Hel
> Hol-Ruh
> Bel-Hol
> Bur S A Hol-Ruh
> Den-Nth
>
> I will then move:
> Edi-Nth (which I will build now) (bounce with your fleet Denmark)
> Lpl-Yor (which I will build now)
> Lon-Eng
> MAO-NAf
> NAO-MAO
> Ska-Nwy
> Swe S Ska-Nwy
> Mar stands
>
> This gives that if you move to London with Nth you cannot also be in Nth
> while I'll be in Eng and Yor thus capturing it back. Also it gives us the
> opportunity to get Kiel and/or Munich back depending on what Chris decides
> to do.
>
> Think of it and let me know! We are past petty lies now, I am serious in my
> suggestion.
>
> all the best
> Christian
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
<<I am quite sure that after Germany is gone it will be easy convincing Cal
and Turkey of a fourway. Harder might be to get a threeway as it seems
right now. Is Turkey maybe willing to attack Russia? The good thing about T
attacking R would be that we could all participate in the attack and take
him out quickly!
comments?>>
I think you have the right of it. Cal will not attack Turkey. Turkey
forwards anything I send him to Cal. IF Turkey will attack Russia we can
make this a three-way, otherwise it looks to be 4.
I was surprised you didnt take Brest as well as London/Marsailles. What was
your thinking? Protect the MAO in case I went to the Westmed?
AS to eliminating Germany, the quickest thing would be for me to move an
army around south of switzerland. Could I move through Marsailles to
Burgundy or Gascony (wherever it would be guaranteed not to end up in a Sc
in the fall)? That would really help me out.
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Cal,
>
> I hope your real intentions are not to build northern fleets? I thought we
> got along fine at the moment? I even vacated Nwy for you!
>
> I am not interested of trying to take anyone more than Germany out, after
> that I will agree with any DIAS. Take your chances to grow on Austrias
> behalf until Paul is out!
>
> Let me know your thoughts!
?????! What in the world got you thinking about me building northern
fleets? I've been heading away from you and towards Austria just about as
fast as my little armies can travel and intend to continue to do so. A DIAS
will be more than fine with me.
This game should be over in a couple more seasons.
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> I thought I'd send this to both of you, since you seem to be so
sucessfully
> operating as one country! :)
Yep. Oppressed birds of a feather, that's us!
> I am ready to deal. As long as Greece and Bulgaria remain un-occupied by
> armies, and Galicia is DMZ'd this spring, then I am ready to try, by god,
> for a RAT threeway.
>
> Congratulations on finding each other in the storm . . . (it's fiercely
cold
> here in NYC)
Ditto for Toronto. I took the day off work just to stay home and keep warm.
Turkey is aware of the deal I offered you earlier this morning (I need to
sleep more, I really do) and I think we're in concurence here. I'm going to
move my armies west towards Germany to take Berlin this year if possible. I
will DMZ Gal, but we should bounce there so it won't look funny to Christian
(he's already written me asking me if northern fleets are what I have in
mind).
I'll write more after my nap... <G>
Meef, your thoughts?
Cal
Message from Austria to England, Russia and Turkey in 'ruffians':
Gents,
Well, we have the makings of a 4 way here. R/T are inseperable, and but if
they continue to attack me, they know I will throw this thing to christian
rather than simply allow them to grow at my expense.
I propose that we all S*t draw now, RATE, and if we are all in agreement,
then try to get Paul to do so as well.
There is probably alot of play left in this one tactically, but the
diplomacy end of it is dead. Lets call this one and move on to another
Showcase game -- one without me in it.
Chris
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
>I think you have the right of it. Cal will not attack Turkey. Turkey
>forwards anything I send him to Cal. IF Turkey will attack Russia we can
>make this a three-way, otherwise it looks to be 4.
Ah, so send some untrue press and hope he forwards that too.
>I was surprised you didnt take Brest as well as London/Marsailles. What was
>your thinking? Protect the MAO in case I went to the Westmed?
Well, had I taken Brest I wouldn't been able to build anyway as I could
maximum build two units (being in London to re-capture that). So I figured
being still in MAO was better. Also there is no way Paul can stop me from
conqering Brest now! The position is better like this; two usable builds
and still in MAO in stead of three build (of which one couldn't be used)
and having my fleet blocked in Brest for the entire turn.
>AS to eliminating Germany, the quickest thing would be for me to move an
>army around south of switzerland. Could I move through Marsailles to
>Burgundy or Gascony (wherever it would be guaranteed not to end up in a Sc
>in the fall)? That would really help me out.
Yes, you can do that. Please don't follow up with fleet TRN westwards
though, that would make me nervous. I guess you want the fleets to protect
against Turkey anyway.
I will try to get Cal to tell me what he wants to do and send you the info.
all the best
/Christian
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
Paul,
Ok, we have a chance to stop him yet. I guess Cal is easily talked into
helping us if he sees Austria slowly getting some real heat.
I guess Cal is far too upset at the moment to be influenced by you so I
will do whatever I can to talk to him.
all the best
Christian
Message from Russia to Austria, England and Turkey in
'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to England, Russia and
> Turkey in 'ruffians':
>
> Well, we have the makings of a 4 way here. R/T are inseperable, and but
if
> they continue to attack me, they know I will throw this thing to christian
> rather than simply allow them to grow at my expense.
>
> I propose that we all S*t draw now, RATE, and if we are all in agreement,
> then try to get Paul to do so as well.
>
> There is probably alot of play left in this one tactically, but the
> diplomacy end of it is dead. Lets call this one and move on to another
> Showcase game -- one without me in it.
Maybe my view is a little more upbeat because Russia is finally doing a
little better, but I think the old girl has lots of play in her yet,
tactically and diplomatically.
Cal
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Cal,
Good to hear! I was only a tiny bit upset by your broadcasted message. Sorry.
Yes, as you say, the game will be over in a few seasons.
all the best
/Christian
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
>
> Cal,
>
> Good to hear! I was only a tiny bit upset by your broadcasted message.
Sorry.
>
> Yes, as you say, the game will be over in a few seasons.
Okay, now it makes sense. No, the broadcast was strictly tongue in cheek
when I realized that there were no English, Austrian, German or Turkish
units in Russia. I honestly can't remember how many seasons ago it was that
THAT was true! d;-})
BTW, as for Chris' broadcasted draw request, I think we can actually think
about taking him out of the game or at least out of the draw if we're
willing to play a bit longer. What do you think?
Cal
Message from England to Russia in
'ruffians':
Cal, Cal...yes, we might be able to take him out too, but first things
first. Also, we have to take Chris out very carefully so that you and
Turkey doesn't get all upset and think I will try to get a solo. Let�s talk
more of that when the time comes.
all the best
/Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in
> > 'ruffians':
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Ok, we have a chance to stop him yet. I guess Cal is easily talked into
> > helping us if he sees Austria slowly getting some real heat.
> >
> > I guess Cal is far too upset at the moment to be influenced by you so I
> > will do whatever I can to talk to him.
> >
> > all the best
> >
> > Christian
>
> Christian, I see no point in pleading with Cal and even levity won't work at
> this time!
> I leave negociating with him to you. Cal can't hurt me; Austria holds all
> my home
> dots. What we have to do is deny Austria any further westward advances, and
>
> maybe get some of my lost dots back at his expense. If Chris sees that no
> further
> profits are to be won at western expense, he will be forced to turn (once
> again) on
> his buddies in the east. THEN, Cal might come crying to you....
>
> Paul
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in
> 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal, Cal...yes, we might be able to take him out too, but first things
> first. Also, we have to take Chris out very carefully so that you and
> Turkey doesn't get all upset and think I will try to get a solo. Let�s
talk
> more of that when the time comes.
Agreed. And I WOULD have gotten around to talking about ways of taking
Chris out without you getting overly big... <G>.
Cal
Message from England to Germany in
'ruffians':
>> If Chris sees that no further profits are to be won at western expense,
he will be forced to turn (once
again) on his buddies in the east. THEN, Cal might come crying to you....>>
I will surely let you know if he does! Just so you can anjoy him begging!!
all the best
Christian
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I guess I ought to tell you that Cal was asking me to join him and Turkey
to take you out for a three-way once Germany is out. He also told me that
it had to be done carefully so that I don't advance up to 18!
We need to stay in touch rather closely now if we want this to end this in
a good way. I figure both Cal and the guy playing Turkey are able to get a
solo too if I would join them and let one of them try.
all the best
/Christian
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris,
Why all of a sudden talks of canning the game? I finally get a little
breathing space and u want to pack it up?
"Well, we have the makings of a 4 way here. R/T are inseperable, and but
if
they continue to attack me, they know I will throw this thing to christian
rather than simply allow them to grow at my expense.
I propose that we all S*t draw now, RATE, and if we are all in agreement,
then try to get Paul to do so as well.
There is probably alot of play left in this one tactically, but the
diplomacy end of it is dead. Lets call this one and move on to another
Showcase game -- one without me in it."
Do u still have an interest in:
"Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
I thought I'd send this to both of you, since you seem to be so sucessfully
operating as one country! :)
I am ready to deal. As long as Greece and Bulgaria remain un-occupied by
armies, and Galicia is DMZ'd this spring, then I am ready to try, by god,
for a RAT threeway.
Congratulations on finding each other in the storm . . . (it's fiercely cold
here in NYC)
Chris"
I am willing to be a fleet power and not put armies in bul and gre, make my
way into the med and fight on that front if there is still an interest.
I owe a note of graditude toward u in that if u had not shown me kindness in
the spring of my first year, I would be pushing up daisies by now.
I have never had a goal to kill u, just carve out a some pie for myself.
Thoughts?
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Mikal,
Well, lets put it this way -- I know Cal is nosing the idea about of
eliminating me and making this a RET draw. I am simply not going to let
that happen.
Given the fact that you are not willing to attack Cal, and Cal is not
willing to attack you, and Noone can eliminate England, and I will throw
this TO england before going down, it seems to be all wrapped up to me.
If you were willing to attack Cal, it could be a three way. It would mean
you building F Ank and A Smy -- a move to the Black and Armenia would put
you in good stread. I could support F con to Bul EC, and off we go.
But, I figure you for A Ank F Smy, and then i have to defend the Ionian
against you or the Tyrh against Christian.
Thats my thinking.
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
I will throw this to Christian, if you don't back off and right bloody now.
(sorry, I get british when I am upset.)
You'll remember that you taking German centers was predicated upon Me taking
French ones? Well, that aint gonna happen this year, is it? No, the thing
to do if you are serious about working with me is getting that unit in
Galicia dislodged, disbanded and rebuit as a fleet, North coast.
You can have berlin when I walk out of it -- anything else, an attack to cut
support, a supported attack on silesia, bouncing me out of Vienna, a
supported attack on Budapest, anything whatsoever and BANG i am turning this
ship of fools around and invinting Christian into Italy.
May I be more plain?
Warsaw -> Livonia or Moscow
Galicia -> Warsaw
Ukraine S Rum hold
Rum hold
I really hate making ultimatums. I do. But I will not go down so you can
have a RET three way -- capice?
Chris
Message from Austria to England in 'ruffians':
Christian,
Thanks for the heads up. If I can go through Marsailles, and maybe get
Paris, I should be able to hold the hordes off.
Any chance of getting some pressure on StPete this year? Just enough that
he has to go back and defend it?
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> Cal,
>
> I will throw this to Christian, if you don't back off and right bloody
now.
> (sorry, I get british when I am upset.)
Careful or I'll start pulling out my Monty Python tapes... (He's not dead,
he's pining for the fjords...)
> You'll remember that you taking German centers was predicated upon Me
taking
> French ones? Well, that aint gonna happen this year, is it? No, the
thing
> to do if you are serious about working with me is getting that unit in
> Galicia dislodged, disbanded and rebuit as a fleet, North coast.
Disbanded sounds good to me. Pick your method: move to Vienna and you poof
it? Bohemia would likely be better so you wouldn't need to worry about
where I MIGHT retreat. What will make you feel comfortable?
> You can have berlin when I walk out of it -- anything else, an attack to
cut
> support, a supported attack on silesia, bouncing me out of Vienna, a
> supported attack on Budapest, anything whatsoever and BANG i am turning
this
> ship of fools around and invinting Christian into Italy.
Fair enough.
> May I be more plain?
>
> Warsaw -> Livonia or Moscow
> Galicia -> Warsaw
> Ukraine S Rum hold
> Rum hold
>
> I really hate making ultimatums. I do. But I will not go down so you can
> have a RET three way -- capice?
I don't see the point of alarming Christian by moving to Livonia and Moscow
doesn't make much sense. See what you think about the idea of dislodging A
Gal. I'm in favour of that and you call the shots as to how to do it.
Okay?
Cal
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Well, actually, I AM pining for the Fjords . . . ;)
Heheheheheh. May I say again that it has been a real pleasure playing with
you? I can't wait for Baltimore in August -- you Will be there, right?
Ok, lets see who builds what and where, and we can talk about the disbanding
of Gal.
I guess my pref would be to support Silesia back to Gal in the spring, so
that I can move back to bohemia in the fall.
Alarm England? I think you could send ONE unit that way without raising too
much of a ruckus, don't you?
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in
'ruffians':
>
> Well, actually, I AM pining for the Fjords . . . ;)
Yes, but do you, in FACT have ANY cheese?
> Heheheheheh. May I say again that it has been a real pleasure playing
with
> you? I can't wait for Baltimore in August -- you Will be there, right?
Doubt it. I'm a backwoods camper and that's prime time. Mind you, Edi has
been bugging me about it too. He says Calhamer will be there. Haven't seen
HIM since Kansas City in '02 so it would be nice to renew old acquaintances.
Maybe I can bring my tent... <G>
> Ok, lets see who builds what and where, and we can talk about the
disbanding
> of Gal.
>
> I guess my pref would be to support Silesia back to Gal in the spring, so
> that I can move back to bohemia in the fall.
Hmm, then *I'd* be taking a bit of a chance there. Well, it's probably not
much of one and you still have England chomping at the bit behind you.
Okay, let's go for it. How about I move Pru-Sil and also pull back (to Pru
or Ber if you accede) in the Fall. I'm taking a chance that you're not
suckering me so I don't think it's out of line for me to ask you to do the
same. I DO recognize that I have to work with you here. Meef will confirm
that I broached that idea to you two seasons ago. Have that much faith in
me, okay? I have not lied to you this game.
> Alarm England? I think you could send ONE unit that way without raising
too
> much of a ruckus, don't you?
He's ALREADY sent me e-mail cautioning me not to even THINK of building
northern fleets. His note arrived within an hour of the results coming out.
How's that for a suspicious hair trigger?
Cal
Message from Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Ideas on how to handle this situation?
U pros sure pull some wild stunts.
Meef
> Message from [email protected] as Austria to Turkey in
'ruffians':
>
>
> Mikal,
>
> Well, lets put it this way -- I know Cal is nosing the idea about of
> eliminating me and making this a RET draw. I am simply not going to let
> that happen.
>
> Given the fact that you are not willing to attack Cal, and Cal is not
> willing to attack you, and Noone can eliminate England, and I will throw
> this TO england before going down, it seems to be all wrapped up to me.
>
> If you were willing to attack Cal, it could be a three way. It would mean
> you building F Ank and A Smy -- a move to the Black and Armenia would put
> you in good stread. I could support F con to Bul EC, and off we go.
>
> But, I figure you for A Ank F Smy, and then i have to defend the Ionian
> against you or the Tyrh against Christian.
>
> Thats my thinking.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
his message was in response to this message i sent him:
Chris,
Why all of a sudden talks of canning the game? I finally get a little
breathing space and u want to pack it up?
"Well, we have the makings of a 4 way here. R/T are inseperable, and but
if
they continue to attack me, they know I will throw this thing to christian
rather than simply allow them to grow at my expense.
I propose that we all S*t draw now, RATE, and if we are all in agreement,
then try to get Paul to do so as well.
There is probably alot of play left in this one tactically, but the
diplomacy end of it is dead. Lets call this one and move on to another
Showcase game -- one without me in it."
Do u still have an interest in:
"Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia and Turkey in
'ruffians':
I thought I'd send this to both of you, since you seem to be so sucessfully
operating as one country! :)
I am ready to deal. As long as Greece and Bulgaria remain un-occupied by
armies, and Galicia is DMZ'd this spring, then I am ready to try, by god,
for a RAT threeway.
Congratulations on finding each other in the storm . . . (it's fiercely cold
here in NYC)
Chris"
I am willing to be a fleet power and not put armies in bul and gre, make my
way into the med and fight on that front if there is still an interest.
I owe a note of graditude toward u in that if u had not shown me kindness in
the spring of my first year, I would be pushing up daisies by now.
I have never had a goal to kill u, just carve out a some pie for myself.
Thoughts?
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Cal,
> Ideas on how to handle this situation?
Pretty simple actually. Just swear up and down to Chris that you are quite
willing to play for a RAT draw and you'll be willing to expand through the
Med WITHOUT stressing that you want to help against English aggression.
He knows that as soon as you and I can bottle up England, he's toast, so we
don't belabour THAT point. Remind him that you want a couple of centres
along the way, but don't stress the point about defending against England.
Make ANY sense?
> U pros sure pull some wild stunts.
There's times I feel like a bloody lawyer, I swear...
Cal
Message from Turkey to Austria in 'ruffians':
Chris, I just want to get out into the med and have a little fun. I am
more that willing to build fleets and stay outta Gre and bul with armies
according to your request. RAT draw will be the goal. Surely we can work
toward that, eh?
MiKaL
Message from England to Austria in
'ruffians':
Chris,
I do not think I am able to pressure StP. I might be in Nwy after next move
though.
all the best
Christian
Broadcast message from Austria in 'ruffians':
What's the holdup?
Chris
Broadcast message from Russia in 'ruffians':
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Austria in
'ruffians':
>
>
> What's the holdup?
>
> Chris
We're all talking about you...
Cal