| Press for Spring of 1903 in ruffians |
Movement
Message from Italy to Russia in 'ruffians':
Greetings!
Is there anything we can do togther this turn?
I could support you to Trl for instance...
The Pope
Message from Russia to Italy in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>Greetings!
>
>Is there anything we can do togther this turn?
>I could support you to Trl for instance...
I don't think it would be a good idea for me to tip my hand so soon. I am
trying to talk Turkey into turning on Austria and I hope to be able to make
some aggressive moves in the Fall.
I'll let you know what I can accomplish.
Cal
Message from Italy to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
> I don't think it would be a good idea for me to tip my hand so soon. I am
> trying to talk Turkey into turning on Austria and I hope to be able to make
> some aggressive moves in the Fall.
>
> I'll let you know what I can accomplish.
>
> Cal
>
Okey, we will have to see if we can do anything by the fall then.
Mvh Roland
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
You know, if we all just ignore Russia he won't go away.
Broadcast message from Observer in 'ruffians':
>
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
>
>
> You know, if we all just ignore Russia he won't go away.
>
And this is a "good thing" [TM]. I don't want Russia to go away.
I don't want ANY of you to go away. The Battle Royale is lots
better when everyone is involved. Methinks you wisheth too much.
Jim-Bob
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
Juge Diplomacy wrote:
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Observer in 'ruffians':
>
> >
> > Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
> >
> >
> > You know, if we all just ignore Russia he won't go away.
> >
> And this is a "good thing" [TM]. I don't want Russia to go away.
> I don't want ANY of you to go away. The Battle Royale is lots
> better when everyone is involved. Methinks you wisheth too much.
>
> Jim-Bob
Busybody.... Russia won't GO away, and he'll PUT US away. Hey, hey, bye
bye.
Broadcast message from France in 'ruffians':
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
>
>
> Hey you Francophiles out there: what sounded wiser to you? France
> getting +2
> and Germany none (or -1), or Germany +1 and France -1. Under the
> circumstances,
> which choice would you have made?
> It was a no-brainer, but it wasn't at all stupid!
>
first off, France would have been +1 (from Spain) there was no way to
guarantee LVP this year unless Germany was on board for that maneuver.
Second, I would like to agree with Germany when he says "it was a
no-brainer, but it wasn't at all stupid". I think "stupid" is altogether too
soft a word to use. it *was* a no brainer, which Germany amply showed. And
it was *idiotic*. There, that is a much more appropriate word.
"what choice would you have made?" is an easy one. I'd've kept an ally and
made a logical argument as to why Germany, in all fairness, should be lent
the use of Belgium seeing as how France was going to gain LVP with Germany's
help, leaving both allies with +1. That's what I would have done.
Instead, since you yourself are not to be trusted you erroneously assume
that other players are the same, and therefore leave off the possibility
that other players can function as team members who listen to reason. Your
"no-brainer" strategy gained you a net loss: You cannot keep your gains from
the stab long-term; you suffered an attack and loss of homecenter from yet
*another* power, Russia, and you've done nothing to actually help anyone
else ally with you, since any further gains you stand to make would be in
conflict with England's natural claims anyway. All in all, the move was
marginally worse than a beginner's "stab-for-one-center" strategy. A "no
brainer" for sure!
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in
>'ruffians':
>
>Hi Cal,
>thanks for the fast reply. I think that now Austria is not really
>poupular versus you and Italy. I agree with you. We should forget our
>old problems. But I have a question : why did you send your FLEET in
>Rumania. There, a fleet can act ONLY against Turkey. You need an army to
>have an action versus Austria. It's probably a reason also for the past
>R/T war. As soon as possible, I think a good idea would be the
>destruction of this fleet, followed by the build of an army, but this is
>another story. Before that, I think you need to envisage to shift the
>position of your units. Unless that, what can we do?
>Possibly, you can then move F Rum-Sev, A Ukr-Sev, and A Sev-Ukr. With
>your present position, what can we do directly against Austria? Of
>course, we need to find some arrangments, cause I don't think such a
>move is possible, unless you ask it NICELY to Austria:-)
>I need to think at the board game. Let me know about your ideas.
>Keep in touch
The reason I moved to Black Sea is simple. Austria told me that he had a
deal with Italy to attack Greece. You can see by the attempted convoy,
Italy thought so too. Austria never bothered to inform me of the double
cross and I am really, really upset about that.
How about you and I get down to serious negotiations here? Austria has
proved himself very undependable as an ally. In fact, he is the proverbial
"loose cannon" in that I cannot depend on him to do what he says. That's
something I really do not like in an ally.
Now you, on the other hand, did exactly as you said you were going to do and
that IS something I place great value on. Therefore, I'm going to
re-confirm my previous offer to you - let's team up and launch a blitz
attack on Austria THIS TURN. With only the five units and an enraged
Italian on the other side, we can put him out within a couple of turns if we
play it right. That will give us a fast jump on the other side of the
board. England, France & Germany are all confused as to who is doing what
to whom.
Before we discuss tactics, let me know if you are interested in attacking
Austria THIS turn. I am very much in favour of it and I'm even willing to
let you decide the spoils.
Like I said, the one thing cannot abide in an ally is not knowing where he
is going to attack next. You and I can work together and never get in each
other's way.
What do you say? Allies? Death to Austria?
Cal White
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
Juge Diplomacy wrote:
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as France in 'ruffians':
>
> > Broadcast message from [email protected] as Germany in 'ruffians':
> >
> >
> > Hey you Francophiles out there: what sounded wiser to you? France
> > getting +2
> > and Germany none (or -1), or Germany +1 and France -1. Under the
> > circumstances,
> > which choice would you have made?
> > It was a no-brainer, but it wasn't at all stupid!
> >
>
> first off, France would have been +1 (from Spain) there was no way to
> guarantee LVP this year unless Germany was on board for that maneuver.
>
> Second, I would like to agree with Germany when he says "it was a
> no-brainer, but it wasn't at all stupid". I think "stupid" is altogether too
> soft a word to use. it *was* a no brainer, which Germany amply showed. And
> it was *idiotic*. There, that is a much more appropriate word.
>
> "what choice would you have made?" is an easy one. I'd've kept an ally and
> made a logical argument as to why Germany, in all fairness, should be lent
> the use of Belgium seeing as how France was going to gain LVP with Germany's
> help, leaving both allies with +1. That's what I would have done.
>
> Instead, since you yourself are not to be trusted you erroneously assume
> that other players are the same, and therefore leave off the possibility
> that other players can function as team members who listen to reason. Your
> "no-brainer" strategy gained you a net loss: You cannot keep your gains from
> the stab long-term; you suffered an attack and loss of homecenter from yet
> *another* power, Russia, and you've done nothing to actually help anyone
> else ally with you, since any further gains you stand to make would be in
> conflict with England's natural claims anyway. All in all, the move was
> marginally worse than a beginner's "stab-for-one-center" strategy. A "no
> brainer" for sure!
John, you never offered Bel did you? Furthermore, you didn't offer the far more
logical (and potentially harmful to our "common enemy" England) support for
German F Nth-Lon. That was the clincher. You were in the "Seal" alliance for
yourself, and I had no use for you.
Your grapes have turned sour because you didn't make those offers, I didn't
request them, and you STILL didn't see a stab coming....
Who's the real dummy here? Huh?
P.S. Are you sure that you can recapture Paris with only two units? I would
have
kept F Eng and gone after Bel....
Message from England to Germany in 'ruffians':
My German Friend!
I am more than willing to help you, and as you suggested me having Denmark
I am even more so.
Here are my intended moves:
F Nwy-Swe
F Nth-Den (supported by you!)
F Lon-Eng
A Lvp-Wal
What do you think?
I am a BIT worried about the Russians growth. I think so are the other so I
guess you will soon se him disband.
/Christian
Message from England to Russia in 'ruffians':
Hello Tsar!
Germany has approached me with some anti-russian suggestions. Maybe the
best thing we can do is that I work "with" him this turn, telling you what
we will do. He will think I am his ally and for the fall we can strike him
hard.
He has suggested me moving like this:
F Lon-Eng
F Nwy-Swe
F Nth-Den (he supporting this with F Hel)
A Lvp-Wal
If you attack Denmark with Sweden and use Baltic to either support mun-Ber
or Mun-Kie we will be able to catcha nother centre before the end of this
year. I guess as he has invited me to Denmark it would be silly not going
there. Anyway, if you rather have Denmark then let me know and we work
something else out. I also have the option of showing him I am his enemy
already this turn by following up to the Nth from Nwy thus having two
strikes on Bel this fall. Finally, you can attack Denmark with support thus
keeping me out and thus giving me two supports against Bel in the Fall
while you have two of your own on Denmark. Many options. Give me feedback!
/Christian
Message from Turkey to Russia in
'ruffians':
Hi Cal,
thanks for the compliment. I think I do what I say most of the time. And
to be honest, I don't understand what you mean exactly, by attacking
Austria this turn. As I say, you have a fleet in Rumania, nothing in
Galicia, Italy has a fleet in AEGEAN(?), near my home centers. About
Italy, I'm quite sure he would play against Austria. But you are not at
all in position. You just ask me to attack Austria THIS TURN, alone in
fact, cause your fleet cannot give me any support, except against I:-).
That's why I suggested you to shift your units. Unless that, what do you
propose? You said that it's too early to discuss tactics, but I think
it's time actually. In such a dubitative position, I don't want to lose
my only ally, just on a guess. Soory for that, but I prefer be honest.
Moreover, you prove last turn that your tactic was good. I mean, not so
many players use the self attack by 2 units of a unit which move. So,
you can break a support, without be dislodged. Well done.
Coming back to our problem, I wait for a reply.
Cyrille from Turkey
Broadcast message from Turkey in
'ruffians':
Hey guys,
I guess it was just a game. Without perfid attacks. It's true that it is
a demo game. Personnally, I try to not attack a player, saying he's
weak, and so on. Of course, I use it in my negociations with other
players. Maybe it can be seen as hypocrit, I don't know, but the others
players need not to be hurt.
About the F/G situation, here is my opinion, sending in an email to
Germany a few days ago. It is my true tactical opinion. I must admit
that, without any contact with France, it needs to be taken with
precautions. So, here is the message:
BEGIN
I don't know from who you heard that you were stupid! For me, I deny.
No, I never say such a thing. I was not aware of your negociations with
France. Actually, it's the only player I think I've never talk with. My
opinion is just that the best thing for both of you was to stick
together. For you, cause I guess it was your best chance to survive. But
now that I'm alive again, with the Austrian's stab, you'll feel better I
guess, cause Russia may be in trouble. Of course, it was really
depending on France's attitude. If I were playing France, with such a
weakness in my center, cover by my ally, I would have help him a lot,
giving him the first english centers to survive, or better giving him
Belgium, but after negociation!
END
And now, back to the game. Of course, I'll be happy to meet France in
Munich. Unless extraordinary circumstance, it would probably mean a
great position for me:-)
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
Hi Chris;
My replies are below:
Juge Diplomacy wrote:
> Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> My German Friend!
>
> I am more than willing to help you, and as you suggested me having Denmark
> I am even more so.
>
> Here are my intended moves:
> F Nwy-Swe
> F Nth-Den (supported by you!)
> F Lon-Eng
> A Lvp-Wal
>
> What do you think?
I will support you to Den from Hel, as agreed. If you are more worried about
Russia than you are about France (as I would be), you might want to consider
instead moving F Nwy-Stp, F Lon-Nth and A Lpl-Yrk in the Spring; in the Fall
order F StPnc-S-A Yrk-Nwy.
Why Russia is so trusting of you regarding StP I can't imagine! I also
cannot imagine why France does not believe that I might be a more logical ally
for you
than he would be. Partitioning Germany between F/E/R would be shortsighted,
with all those Russian fleets in the north looking for someplace to go
afterward!
(Plus, there are not THAT many German dots available to be shared three
ways....)
>
>
> I am a BIT worried about the Russians growth. I think so are the other so I
> guess you will soon se him disband.
>
> I sincerely hope that the others (A/T) will awake to the dangers of
> letting the Russian bear roam unmolested. If he is allowed to consume
> Germany, he will have lots of units looking for other choice morsels to eat!
How does the Frenchman think that he can retake Par AND cover Mar/Bre
with so few units at his disposal? What did he offer you against me--Bel?
Broadcast message from France in 'ruffians':
> Broadcast message from [email protected] as Turkey in
> 'ruffians':
>
> And now, back to the game. Of course, I'll be happy to meet France in
> Munich. Unless extraordinary circumstance, it would probably mean a
> great position for me:-)
it's a deal. Let's convoy you over to Munich to make it faster, ok?
Broadcast message from France in 'ruffians':
> you never offered Bel did you? Furthermore, you didn't offer the far more
> logical support for
> German F Nth-Lon. That was the clincher.
fascinating. France now is required to not only not grow too fast for
whatever post-stab scale Germany sets but also is imposed upon to offer its
centers to Germany unilaterally and without request. Presuambly via Ouija
board. I don't know whether I should be insulted that you would presume
anyone reading this would actually believe that, or whether to laugh at the
naivite it took to write it.
> P.S. Are you sure that you can recapture Paris with only two units? I
would
> have kept F Eng and gone after Bel....
we will see what we will see. Belgium is now rightfully British. I assume
England will move F LON to ENG and take Belgium in the fall. Germany -2.
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> we will see what we will see. Belgium is now rightfully British. I assume
> England will move F LON to ENG and take Belgium in the fall. Germany -2.
Yeah, uh huh.... And England will help Russia into Den/Kie to speed up the
conquest, so that the two of then can meet in the Nth sea for tea. Right.
Broadcast message from France in 'ruffians':
> Yeah, uh huh.... And England will help Russia into Den/Kie to speed up
the
> conquest, so that the two of then can meet in the Nth sea for tea. Right.
I doubt that, at least this year. If he does tho, then Germany -3.
Makes more sense for England to pick off Belgium for a build at least in
1903. Heck, maybe Russia will even *support* England from North Sea to
Denmark, just for the advantage it gives Russia. (uses F SWE to support
England in, and F BAL to hit KIE, whilst moving A WAR - PRU, taking BER in
fall, and KIE next spring.
Thanks for the idea, Germany!!!
Broadcast message from Germany in 'ruffians':
>
> > Yeah, uh huh.... And England will help Russia into Den/Kie to speed up
> the
> > conquest, so that the two of then can meet in the Nth sea for tea. Right.
>
> I doubt that, at least this year. If he does tho, then Germany -3.
>
> Makes more sense for England to pick off Belgium for a build at least in
> 1903. Heck, maybe Russia will even *support* England from North Sea to
> Denmark, just for the advantage it gives Russia. (uses F SWE to support
> England in, and F BAL to hit KIE, whilst moving A WAR - PRU, taking BER in
> fall, and KIE next spring.
>
> Thanks for the idea, Germany!!!
Pardon me, but what country did you say you were playing? -Pgr
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>Germany has approached me with some anti-russian suggestions. Maybe the
>best thing we can do is that I work "with" him this turn, telling you what
>we will do. He will think I am his ally and for the fall we can strike him
>hard.
>
>He has suggested me moving like this:
>F Lon-Eng
>F Nwy-Swe
>F Nth-Den (he supporting this with F Hel)
>A Lvp-Wal
>
>If you attack Denmark with Sweden and use Baltic to either support mun-Ber
>or Mun-Kie we will be able to catcha nother centre before the end of this
>year. I guess as he has invited me to Denmark it would be silly not going
>there. Anyway, if you rather have Denmark then let me know and we work
>something else out. I also have the option of showing him I am his enemy
>already this turn by following up to the Nth from Nwy thus having two
>strikes on Bel this fall. Finally, you can attack Denmark with support thus
>keeping me out and thus giving me two supports against Bel in the Fall
>while you have two of your own on Denmark. Many options. Give me feedback!
I see your point about fooling Germany into thinking you're his ally for a
turn, but since all three of us are going to attack him, I don't think we
need to bother. Let's just zap him and grab his dots. Bloodthirsty? Me?
Well...
I'd prefer to be the one taking Denmark, but only because I stand to lose
Munich this turn. You'll likely get Belgium, so you needn't worry about
getting a build. If I can guarantee myself Berlin, we can see about
swapping Denmark later. I don't like to be stingy over supply centres when
my allies can benefit.
Lon-Eng sounds good. Can you also move Norway to Skaggarak this turn? That
would guarantee Den in the Fall in case he doesn't believe you that you're
going to move there and supports himself in. We BOTH want your North Sea
fleet available to attack Belgium in the Fall. d;-})
Let me know what you think of my ideas and we'll finalize our moves.
Later,
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in
>'ruffians':
>
>Hi Cal,
>thanks for the compliment. I think I do what I say most of the time. And
>to be honest, I don't understand what you mean exactly, by attacking
>Austria this turn. As I say, you have a fleet in Rumania, nothing in
>Galicia, Italy has a fleet in AEGEAN(?), near my home centers. About
>Italy, I'm quite sure he would play against Austria. But you are not at
>all in position. You just ask me to attack Austria THIS TURN, alone in
>fact, cause your fleet cannot give me any support, except against I:-).
>That's why I suggested you to shift your units. Unless that, what do you
>propose? You said that it's too early to discuss tactics, but I think
>it's time actually. In such a dubitative position, I don't want to lose
>my only ally, just on a guess. Soory for that, but I prefer be honest.
>Moreover, you prove last turn that your tactic was good. I mean, not so
>many players use the self attack by 2 units of a unit which move. So,
>you can break a support, without be dislodged. Well done.
>Coming back to our problem, I wait for a reply.
I wanted to get a reasonably firm commitment from you as to your willingness
to attack Austria because the tactics I have in mind will require a bit of
faith from you. Here's what I propose:
Turkey: f bla-con, a smy s f bla-con, f ion-gre, a bul s f ion-gre
Italy: f aeg-ion (or he could support you to gre)
Russia: a ukr-gal, a sev-rum, f rum-bla
Now, please, please, please believe me when I say that having my fleet in
the Black Sea will NOT be a threat to you for a couple of reasons. 1) Even
if I was to move f rum-bla and a sev-arm, you'd be able to bounce me out
from taking any of your centres; 2) If I was to stab you, I'd have
absolutely no asssurance that Austria would help. My whole reason for
wanting to take him out is that I can't trust him to do anything. I would
have a lot more to gain from a strong R/T alliance. As I mentioned before,
the West is divided and weak and we could easily head that way without
coming into conflict with each other.
If these moves work, Austria will be seriously weakened in the Fall. Greece
would fall to you and he would be at risk for both Serbia & Budapest. As
for the future of my southern fleet, I will either keep it in Sev (which is
where I would move it in the Fall) or I'd move it to where you could blow it
up. THAT'S how much I want to attack Austria!
Okay, now that our cards are on the table, where do we stand?
Cal White
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
Sorry to take so long in answering, but the heat here in Toronto has been
ferocious. My little air conditioner doesn't extend itself to cooling the
computer room and my wife has been monopolizing the fan. Needless to say, I
haven't spent much time in here... d;-})
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
>Cal,
>
>Well, I imagine I am not too popular in the halls of the October Palace
Well, I do eventually get over things... <g>
>Please let me know your thoughts upon this change in the wind,
Well, I must admit that I don't like surprises, especially from an ally, but
I find your reasoning pretty sound (nice call on Munich) and I think I can
play the hand you've dealt. I certainly agree that Roland's inexplicable
hesitancy (do you two have a previous history?) meant that he would have to
be taken out sooner or later.
Armenia looks tempting, now that it's open, but I'm a little unsure I want
to gamble with Rum or Sev to get there. Cyrille may be a little bolder now
that he thinks he has an ally in Austria. I'll have to give that some
thought. Any chance of you supporting me in Munich?
I'll get back to you if I hear anything interesting.
Cal
Message from England to Russia in 'ruffians':
>Let me know what you think of my ideas and we'll finalize our moves.
Cal,
I need Germany to be my "friend" thir turn, otherwise he will just support
Belgium for the fall and I will be without builds. Maybe he supports it
anyway! I think I still prefer my first suggestion about bouncing in
Denmark and hitting hard in the fall. You will loose Munich in the spring
but are sure to get Berlin in the fall. If you also take Denmark in the
fall you get +1 and I get +1 from Bel. You suggested the same net result
but with rather much smaller chance of giving me Belgium so I guess my way
of acheiving it isn't too bad for you?
/Christian
Message from England to Germany in 'ruffians':
Hello again!
I still think Eng is the best way to go, as I want to be able to move
fleets quickly southwards if the situation arises. Furthermore, I think a
Spain or a Portogul will be available for pickup soon.
/Christian
Message from Germany to England in 'ruffians':
>
> > Message from [email protected] as England to Germany in 'ruffians':
> >
> > Hello again!
> >
> > I still think Eng is the best way to go, as I want to be able to move
> > fleets quickly southwards if the situation arises. Furthermore, I think a
> > Spain or a Portogul will be available for pickup soon.
> >
> > So you don't want to slow Russia down? You can't get a French dot as
> > easily as you can get StPete, unless John is promising to "give" Bre to
> > you. He is in an absolute rage over my stab, and he won't listen to
> > anything I say to him. He thinks that throwing the game to Russia will be
> > adequate punishment for me, but once I'm gone, why would I give a damn what
> > happens?
>
> I'll support your F Nth-Den this Spring, but I may have to use F Hel to
> support
> Kiel (or retake it?) in the Fall. You can't support your F Den from Eng, so
> do that
> at your own risk....
> Paul
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>>Let me know what you think of my ideas and we'll finalize our moves.
>
>Cal,
>I need Germany to be my "friend" thir turn, otherwise he will just support
>Belgium for the fall and I will be without builds. Maybe he supports it
>anyway! I think I still prefer my first suggestion about bouncing in
>Denmark and hitting hard in the fall. You will loose Munich in the spring
>but are sure to get Berlin in the fall. If you also take Denmark in the
>fall you get +1 and I get +1 from Bel. You suggested the same net result
>but with rather much smaller chance of giving me Belgium so I guess my way
>of acheiving it isn't too bad for you?
Okay, fair enough. I'll support myself into Denmark and you and I will
bounce both there as well as in Sweden. Then, in the Fall, we hit him hard.
Let me know if there's anything else. Sorry this is so short, but I'm a bit
busy today :-(
Take care,
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Hi Cyrille!
I haven't heard much from anybody in the last couple of days. Guess things
are quiet.
Roland DID write to me to say that he is more than willing to help you and I
against Austria, but I guess that was pretty predictable.
Have you given my proposal any further thought? I'd really like to know if
you will work with me on this, so we can plan our moves.
Cal
Message from Turkey to Russia in
'ruffians':
Hi Cal, I was not at my email machine since now. I just lokk at your
past message. I'll look forward at it.
Keep in touch
Cyrille from trurkey
Message from England to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
I am glad you found my suggestion applicable. I hope this "gruff" doesn't
have any impact on our alliance!
/Christian
Message from Turkey to Russia in
'ruffians':
OK Cal, I had a look at your plan. I'm sorry, but when you say I'll be
able to bounce you, we both lnow it's false. it will be true if you move
A Sev to Ank, sure. But you can just move F Rum to Bla, then convoy to
Ank. It's true that I can bounce you, but then, why let you move into
Black Sea?
And I don't want to eat everything. I prefer supporting the Italian
Fleet in Greece than going myself. I will not have a build, but it's not
a hurry, and I don't want F Aegean, as I don't want F Black Sea!!
So, why don't you consider moving A Sev-Ukr, A War-Gal (anyway, you'll
probably get a bounce), and F Rum-Sev.
But you know, I can propose you a foolish plan too. If we stick
together, the best thing will probably to destroy your fleet, by
supporting my F Bla-Rum, then you take back Rum with an army, building
another. But I don't think you'll consider this. Too risky, I must admit
it.
Before making such moves, I suggest you make some sensible moves. maybe
we loose time, but it's a long game, not a C-Diplo game in 7 years.
We're not in a hurry.
Keep in touch.
Cyrille
Message from Turkey to Italy in
'ruffians':
Hi Roland,
well I heard that you want to offer me Greece. Actually, I prefer you to
be in Greece. I can support your F Aegean-Greece with 2 units. So,
you'll be there for sure, and I will breath again. It's true that I will
still be in Ion, but you must recognize that I was in trouble, and
wasn't able to think about F Eastern Med-Aegean. Then you'll have no
threat. I'll not be able to attack you, both for me and Austria. With
Russia, we could make a break in Austria's countries.
What do you think about that?
Keep in touch
Cyrille
Message from Turkey to Austria in
'ruffians':
Hi Chris,
so what do we do know? I have a great plan, even if you think it's a
little bit risky, for you especially:-)
First, to be honest, you're not popular. Except for Germany, everybody
want me to attack you. Have you ever play with both of them?
So, here's the plan.
We let Faegean moving into Greece, then destroy it. I don't support him
with Ion, as I say. We just let him go. So, I can move Smy to Cau, and
Ion to Nap. In the same time, you bounce in Gal, while you attack Rum
with Ser. Then I cut Apu, giving you Ven, while I take Sev.
Simple, isn't it?
I like those simple plans...
I wait for your reply. I choose you as an ally, so I must admit that I
don't tell the whole truth to those who ask me to attack you. That's why
I prefer a fast answer, as I need to adapt my talk versous others to
this response.
Keep in touch
Cyrille
Message from Italy to Turkey in 'ruffians':
> Hi Roland,
Greetings!
> well I heard that you want to offer me Greece.
Who told you that?
>Actually, I prefer you to
> be in Greece. I can support your F Aegean-Greece with 2 units. So,
> you'll be there for sure, and I will breath again. It's true that I will
> still be in Ion, but you must recognize that I was in trouble, and
> wasn't able to think about F Eastern Med-Aegean. Then you'll have no
> threat. I'll not be able to attack you, both for me and Austria. With
> Russia, we could make a break in Austria's countries.
> What do you think about that?
I think we can change Aeg for Ion. Because I would not be able to keep Gre
for long anyway.
Maybe we could do something in the fall...
But righht now I would prefer you to move F Ion - Alb or Eas, While I move F
Aeg - Ion.
> Keep in touch
> Cyrille
>
Mvh Roland
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Cyrille,
I thank you for being honest with me. I knew supporting you wouldn't be
that popular, but I trust that your loyal alliance will be worth the bother!
So, If I understand you, the plan is this -- Let italy into Greece in the
Spring, and then kick him out in the Fall, and take Rumania in the fall.
Hmmmm.
Its a good plan. Why don't I move Greece to the Ionian, while you move to
the Tyhrrinian? It seems to me that once we have those under our control,
his demise is just a matter of time!
Otherwise I like the plan!
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Well, I am sorry to hear that Toronto has been as bad as NYC, but the
temperature is supposed to be much more reasonable this week, yes?
So, any word from the Street? Its been an interesting little shouting match
between John and Paul, eh? I have to agree with John, his moves seem almost
non-sensical. I assume you will be following up you advantage? I am
looking at his introductory letter, and he is no slouch as a player, with
lots of experience in the hobby. (Of course, niether are you . . . :^) So
I am curious to really find out what he was thinking.
Support you in Munich? I could do. If I string Cyrille along for the
Spring, he should cut Apulian support in the fall. The question then is
what to do with Vienna/Warsaw. I would like to advance Tyrolia to Piedmont
and Vienna to Tyrolia, so that the Question of Venice is moot. It seems to
me that if you support Warsaw to Prussia, (via the Baltic) that there is no
way for Paul to deny you a German center in the Fall. And, if all goes
well, I could support you in Munich in the fall, while I take Venice at the
same time.
If you think that supporting you in Munich is the better thing to to, let's
talk about it. Do we agree to bounce in Galicia, to keep Cyrille believing
that we are at odds? It should be possible for one of us to get Bulgaria in
the fall, at the very least.
In any case, drop me another line, as we are getting closer to deadline, and
I am out of town all weekend!
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to England in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as England to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>Cal,
>I am glad you found my suggestion applicable. I hope this "gruff" doesn't
>have any impact on our alliance!
Not at all. It seems allies are hard to come by in this game. Everybody in
the south is too timid to commit to anything (which is getting frustrating).
At least you and I stick to what we say! That makes for a good alliance.
Regards,
Cal
Message from Russia to Turkey in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Turkey to Russia in
>'ruffians':
>
>OK Cal, I had a look at your plan. I'm sorry, but when you say I'll be
>able to bounce you, we both lnow it's false. it will be true if you move
>A Sev to Ank, sure. But you can just move F Rum to Bla, then convoy to
>Ank. It's true that I can bounce you, but then, why let you move into
>Black Sea?
>And I don't want to eat everything. I prefer supporting the Italian
>Fleet in Greece than going myself. I will not have a build, but it's not
>a hurry, and I don't want F Aegean, as I don't want F Black Sea!!
>So, why don't you consider moving A Sev-Ukr, A War-Gal (anyway, you'll
>probably get a bounce), and F Rum-Sev.
>But you know, I can propose you a foolish plan too. If we stick
>together, the best thing will probably to destroy your fleet, by
>supporting my F Bla-Rum, then you take back Rum with an army, building
>another. But I don't think you'll consider this. Too risky, I must admit
>it.
>Before making such moves, I suggest you make some sensible moves. maybe
>we loose time, but it's a long game, not a C-Diplo game in 7 years.
>We're not in a hurry.
>Keep in touch.
I'm sorry you thought my plan was 'foolish', but I honestly thought (and
still think) it's a chance for some positive action for both of us. There
has to be some trust somewhere in an alliance. Oh well, everybody else in
the East is too timid to do anything drastic; I guess you needn't be any
different.
Anyway, I'm not going to attack Austria by myself (did that with Germany and
I didn't like it), so I'll just have to keep my southern units in neutral
until someone offers me a plan of action.
Regards,
Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
Funny, I was just sitting down to write to you. Great minds and all that,
eh? d;-})
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>Well, I am sorry to hear that Toronto has been as bad as NYC, but the
>temperature is supposed to be much more reasonable this week, yes?
Hell yeah, it's down to nearly 60 degrees Farfegnugel (or whatever) this
morning. Yesterday was that perfect temperature where you don't feel either
hot or cold. Wish we had more of those!
>So, any word from the Street?
Cyrille's giving me a hard time about that fact that I own a southern fleet.
He wants to pop it at my earliest convenience. Don't think I'll go for
it... I don't think he'll make a big issue of it before we're ready to
attack him though...
Roland is, of course, pleading with me to jump you from behind. I am
stringing his hopes along naturally.
>Its been an interesting little shouting match
>between John and Paul, eh? I have to agree with John, his moves seem
almost
>non-sensical. I assume you will be following up you advantage? I am
>looking at his introductory letter, and he is no slouch as a player, with
>lots of experience in the hobby. (Of course, niether are you . . . :^) So
>I am curious to really find out what he was thinking.
Flattery will get you nowhere, buster... <g>
I think Paul's move was either totally ridiculous or an incredible bit of
strategy. Look at it this way, when he and France were allied, you and I
had pretty much the whole board (aside from Turkey who was to be
centre-fodder) lining up to attack them. Italy was (well, in theory anyway)
going to head west. You and I had plans to head into Germany, and England
was totally on our side because it was his only hope of survival. AFTER the
stab, everything kind of fell apart in that the East became more volatile
and England is no longer dependant on our good will. Sure, Germany may
still get his butt kicked, but he turned a few variable his way. If this
was indeed what he was thinking, I'd have to say it was probably worth the
chance.
>Support you in Munich? I could do. If I string Cyrille along for the
>Spring, he should cut Apulian support in the fall. The question then is
>what to do with Vienna/Warsaw. I would like to advance Tyrolia to Piedmont
>and Vienna to Tyrolia, so that the Question of Venice is moot. It seems to
>me that if you support Warsaw to Prussia, (via the Baltic) that there is no
>way for Paul to deny you a German center in the Fall. And, if all goes
>well, I could support you in Munich in the fall, while I take Venice at the
>same time.
Actually, I'm expecting to lose Munich this turn anyway and have planned for
it so don't worry about the support.
>If you think that supporting you in Munich is the better thing to to, let's
>talk about it. Do we agree to bounce in Galicia, to keep Cyrille believing
>that we are at odds? It should be possible for one of us to get Bulgaria
in
>the fall, at the very least.
AFAIK, Cyrille doesn't think we're at odds. My communications with him
certainly haven't given him that impression so I don't think a phony war
would go over right now. As for Bulgaria in the Fall, I'm definitely
interested. Meanwhile, I'd rather keep Gal demilitarized unless we need it
occupied for something.
>In any case, drop me another line, as we are getting closer to deadline,
and
>I am out of town all weekend!
Have fun. I'll think of you when I'm at work... :-(
Cal
Message from Russia to France in 'ruffians':
Do you still need me to move A Mun-Bur? If so, I'm still willing.
Cal
Message from France to Russia in 'ruffians':
yes, very much! thank you! I think that that single move will allow us both
to gain a center from Germany by the end of the fall.
France
Message from Turkey to Austria in
'ruffians':
Good idea Chris, but I guess it's better to directly move in Naples.
With your position, he'll not cover it, even if he don't trust me at
100%.
Concerning Russia, I think it's possible for him to support himself in
Galicia in Spring, with some risks over Rumania. If so, we'd better
attacking him now.
So, I move F Ion to Nap, and A Smy to Cau. And A Bul-Rum Supported by A
Ser and F Bla.
So, at the end of the year, one or 2 russians center will fall,
depending on what he do now (support himself or forcing Gal), while
you'll be at Venice at least. For the rest of Italy, it's still unclear,
but it cannot be bad for us :-)
At middle-term, I think it'll be better for me to build only fleets (one
or 2 if possible, in Smy and/or Con), not army since it can be a threat
for you.
I wait for your reply, then I send my orders.
Hello Rick, I have at least an internet home access. This access can
change, so I take an email. It's [email protected].
As it's rules by Microsoft, I think it's for a while:-)
I'm looking for a job, now that I nearly finish my PhD. So, I don't know
if I could keep this email. Can we change for the new one?
All the best
Cyrille (Turkey in Ruffians)
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Cyrille,
I just got home from a wedding, and I have to run to work. The plan sounds
good -- I will be in touch again tonight, I hope!
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Cyrille has asked me to support A Bul -> Rum from serbia. I have just
arrived bak home from a wedding, I was gone all weekend, and I have to go to
work. But, if you support Rum with both units, it'll still hold, yes? I
wont send in any orders until I get home tonight and hear from you.
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Russia in 'ruffians':
test
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>Cyrille has asked me to support A Bul -> Rum from serbia. I have just
>arrived bak home from a wedding, I was gone all weekend, and I have to go
>to
>work. But, if you support Rum with both units, it'll still hold, yes? I
>wont send in any orders until I get home tonight and hear from you.
It should hold, yes. I don't have a board here at work, but I believe he
only has two units on it, no? If so, your support won't matter. Bang away
my Lulu... d;-})
Do me a favour and check the board though, ok?
Cal
Message from Turkey to Austria in
'ruffians':
OK, I wait for an answer. Actually, when is the deadline. 23:30 CEST,
does it mean 23:30 on the East Coast of the States??
And, better question, when is it in France (GMT +1, I guess)?
I wait for your answer, as soon as you can.
Thanks a lot
Cyrille.
Hello Rick,
well, so I change my mailbox. I still use the Dassault one cause it's
faster, but when I look at Ruffians, I connect to Hotmail. I guess
there's no possibility to receive my messages on both, is there?
I still have a question, about the deadline. It is 23:30 CEST, I'm not
really sure about the deadline for us (GMT +1 if I remember in Summer).
I ask again for the package at the judge, but you are probably aware
about that.
Thanks for all. About the game, was it what you expected? Is he fun? I
guess we never met. Have you ever practice a big (ie WDC or EDC)
tournament?
All the best,
Cyrille.
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
Ok, looking at the map, you've got Ukraine, Sev, and Rum -- so I will be
supporting Cyrille's attack on Rumania, which will therefore fail. Dang,
Real life is killing me. How are things on your end?
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Cyrille,
Ok, all sounds good! I am submitting my orders now, and Serbia will be
supporting the attack on Rumania! Do you think I should move Greece ->
Ionian, just to prevent Roland from linking up?
Best,
Chris
Message from Russia to Austria in 'ruffians':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
>
>Ok, looking at the map, you've got Ukraine, Sev, and Rum -- so I will be
>supporting Cyrille's attack on Rumania, which will therefore fail. Dang,
>Real life is killing me. How are things on your end?
Busy as always. Job's the shits, but at least I go on vacation week after
next.
Talk to you after the moves,
Cal
Message from Turkey to Austria in
'ruffians':
Well, I think it could be better to let him go. So, he will take back
100% Naples, but then you'll be sure to take Venice (as I cut Apulia in
any case), and more than that, you can take AdS, giving you a strong
position. So, we will be sure to take against Italy, one at least or 2
centers if all go fine. Whatever happens, good thing so!
Anyway, if you bounce him, it'll give more guess : one on him about
Naples or Venice, one on me about Smyrna or Constantinople. But I think
the best is to let him go, cause he threats too many centers in Aegean.
Whatever happens, he'll probably collapse. It's up to you.
Best wishes for the turn (I'm confident)
Retreats
Message from Austria to France in 'ruffians':
Hey John! Long time no hear!
I am going to Not-Avaloncon at the end of the month, and was wondering if
you were planning on attending -- perhaps we could carpool?
Interesting convoy . . . Turkey should attack Germany . . . hmmmmm. I
think he'd have to go through me to do that, what exactly are you saying
here? ;)
Drop me a line!
Chris
Message from Austria to Turkey in 'ruffians':
Cyrille,
Well, I decided to bounce him, as you see, and I think that will work out
for the best -- if he does take one of your home SC's you can certainly take
it back, which is more than he can say for Naples! I would certainly
appriciate the cut of support for venice anyway.
What do you think of the board now? I am going to have sporadic access for
the next four days, but I will try to keep in regular touch!
Best,
Chris
Message from Austria to Russia in 'ruffians':
Cal,
hmmm. That probably wasn't the plan, was it? ;)
Nonetheless, I think we can count on Bulgaria as a lock this time around. I
should get Venice, and you Rumania -- what do you think England's game is?
certainly you didn't invite him into Sweden! (I guess he could have gone to
StPete, though.) Very interesting board. Are you keeping notes for
yourself regarding this one?
Let me know what you think our next step is. I'll have sporadic connections
for the next four days or so, but I'll do my best to keep in touch.
Best,
Chris
Broadcast message from Master in 'ruffians':
A few things:
1) The retreat deadline is tomorrow. If anybody thinks retreats or
adjustments are happening too quickly, speak up. I normally like
quick retreat phases, since I really dislike the idea of a lot of
diplomacy going on before the forces retreat. But that's only my
opinion.
2) I'm flying away on Thursday to visit jolly old England (the
country, not Christian, although Christian did win the national
championship there, right?) In a game at this level I usually change
the "Moderated" flag to "Unmoderated" so any players can make any
emergency adjustments to deadlines, etc. while I'm away. I'll be
back in sunny Heidelberg on July 25.
3) The press is piling up like pancakes!
4) I hope everybody is putting together a map of what happens as the
game goes along. My feeling is that this demo game is becoming far
more interesting than the last one.
5) From time to time, if players would like to send me a private
letter explaining what they are doing, when they do something unusual
or unexpected, I would appreciate it. Although the messages sent back
and forth reveal a lot about what people are thinking, they do not
reveal everything.
Rick
Message from Master to Germany in 'ruffians':
Paul,
I'd be interested to hear your explanation and theory behind
your attack on France. Thus far it is one of the more interesting
developments in the game.
Rick
Message from Austria to Master in 'ruffians':
Hey rick!
Well, so far, everything is going exactly to plan. If you've been reading
the press, then you know that while my stab of Italy was a surprise to
everyone involved, it was really just a cover to set up a truly effective
stab of Turkey.
Cyrille coming into the game changed things radically. So when Roland
decided he couldn't or wouldn't support the attack on Germany (by
participating in it) I decided there would be no better time for the hammer
to fall -- his forces spread out, and Cyrille looking desperately for a
friend.
This fall should see me net Venice, and Cal gets Bulgaria. Cyrille should
stay even, gaining Naples but losing Bulgaria, and without fleets in the
vincinity, he shouldn't be able to last long against Russia and myself.
Cal's poor position in the north, and Christians resurgence should mean that
any builds that Cal gets will go away from me, so that I should be able to
consolidate the 13 centers of the med fairly easily, by 1908 or so. We
shall see how much farther I get than that.
Cocky? Well, maybe. If Roland and Cyrille get together after I stab
Cyrille, maybe just maybe they can turn my world into pain. But Roland
should have to pull one, maybe two -- and if he stabs Cyrille for another
center, then Cyrille has to pull, and if he pulls the F Naples, he'll lose
that center the following year, meaning he'll have to pull another unit.
With armies in the boot, I should be able to take down Italy, even if he
does get a fourth unit on the table.
anyway, that's my thinking right now!
Best,
Chris
Message from France to Austria in 'ruffians':
> I am going to Not-Avaloncon at the end of the month, and was wondering if
> you were planning on attending -- perhaps we could carpool?
>
ok, I was going to drive down in my car and see if it survives :) (ha ha
just a joke). I drove down to baltimore about 3 weeks ago for a conference,
it was about 4 hours.
My plan is to leave from manhattan around 1.30-2.00pm on wednesday afternoon
and to return to NYC on Sunday leaving in the afternoon. How does that
sound? Plus, I get to talk your ear off about my new DipJudge code. for 4
hours each way :)
> Interesting convoy . . . Turkey should attack Germany . . . hmmmmm. I
> think he'd have to go through me to do that, what exactly are you saying
> here? ;)
had to do something with that fleet! I could use some help here in terms of
getting Germany off my back otherwise I worry that Russia will grow too
large and no one will be in a position to stop him.
Message from France to Master in 'ruffians':
> 5) From time to time, if players would like to send me a private
> letter explaining what they are doing, when they do something unusual
> or unexpected, I would appreciate it. Although the messages sent back
> and forth reveal a lot about what people are thinking, they do not
> reveal everything.
(i presume these sorts of comments are only available to players after the
game ends)
early mid-game commentary from France:
I'm trying to make Germany's stab look foolish, which I think it was from an
outside perspective, as shown by this spring's moves. He will eventually
lose both Paris and Belgium that he took, without significant advantage and
in fact severe disadvantage in recovering his own home centers from Russia.
More importantly I'm trying to create a public image (using BROADCAST rather
than only private press) that France would do anything to get back at
Germany for the stab, which I hope helps to convince England and Russia that
France will do things based on revenge rather than on strategy. Also, by
doing things that help Russia grow, pressure is taken off of France, on the
theory that France is very important in stopping a Russian solo, yet Russia
cannot threaten French centers very much. At some point I'd expect that
England will realize this and that Germany will be eliminated as part of the
'stop-Russia' stalemate line. In the short term I expect to recover Paris
but not Belgium; long-term Belgium recovery is 50/50 depending entirely on
the relationship with England.
I see the game devolving into a E/F/R/A draw, with one of those, possibly
France, being eliminated at the end (depends on how long it takes
Russia/Austria to reposition around Turkey. If they do it fast, then France
has a better shot at surviving. Another item of note: France has a really
good defensive position once it loses Paris and Belgium. Very hard to make
headway after that without a full-fledged offensive along the entire
NAO/IRI/ENG/PIC/BUR line and even then things are slow unless a
Mediterranean power is involved. France is one of the few countries who can
threaten to throw its centers to one side or the other and still be able to
carry out that threat. In this game with a Russia nearing 9 SC, England and
Germany are foolish to continue the fight against France, since she can
stalemate them long enough for Russia to attack them. As long as one of E/G
realize this, and in this game it looks like only E has the skill to do so,
then the attack on France will collapse.
With respect to Germany's stab, the F/G alliance is a lot more stable than
the E/G alliance, in general. Based on England's moves there was no real
co-ordination on E/G's part so that the stab is purely German, and in light
of the very positive position G/F had in containing England on the turn
before the stab (F/G units in all of North Sea, Wales, and English Channel)
it was a major, major error on Germany's part not to see England reduced to
1-2 SC before stabbing. My public comment that he simply had to ask for
Belgium out of "fairness" I believe is accurate...it never occured to him
I'm sure to even ask...but France would have had no logical argument for not
letting Germany "borrow" Belgium given the positioning of the units, a
worthy trade-off to see England eliminated at the cost of one center. Plus
France would then have a claim on recovering Belgium once Germany got the
rest of Scandinavia, which is why it was being borrowed in the first place.
It strikes me that the German player has been stabbed enough times to
suspect everyone but not enough times that he can differentiate a good stab
from a bad stab. . . kinda like the real life analogy that the only person
more dangerous to himself than an ignorant person is someone who thinks they
are no longer ignorant. :) This is just a matter of experience and some
study of strategy to turn this sort of average-level player paranoia, into
an advanced-player's sense of decent timing. A good player doesn't mind
opening himself to stupid stabs if it means a better position: if the stupid
stab happens it is easily recovered from, if it doesn't then a good forward
position is achieved. It is especially useful to be able to claim the high
moral ground after a stupid stab too...not only are you positionally
advantaged but the other fellow looks foolish, untrustworthy, tactically
inept, and more times than not, not able to make a concession that the stab
was stupid after he finally realizes it (human ego, an especially male ego
oftens prevents this). All these things give you an edge in dealing with the
remaining players and the stabber himself.
Diplomacy is ultimately about people, not pieces.