| Press for Fall of 1909 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Hm, now I am moderately worried. We have no very sure way of retaking Berlin. Consider: To keep Munich safe, we have to have Sil and Tyo support it and it can't move. Nor can we count on its support for any move being useful. Cal *could* order Kie-Bal, Bal-Bot, Hol-Kie, and bounce me in Nwy, using F Swe to support either Bal-Bot or Kie-Bal. Then there would be no way to retake Ber without risking Munich -- and there will eventually be a problem trying for Ber at all because I'll have to support the F Lvn to stay in place. If we then lose Munich, not only could we not retake it, but we would be unlikely to hold onto Berlin. And that would mean we could not afford to stab Italy, since England could win by taking Tunis. Well, ok, what can you do? Too bad. I am still hoping that Cal might order Swe S Ska-Nwy, and not try moving those other two fleets up (into Bot and Bal). After all, if he does try that he risks my kicking him back out of Berlin. If he doesn't move the A Hol into Kiel, and as long as we can persuade Manus to play Mar-Bur again, then everything should be ok. I am considering mentioning to Cal, in an oblique way, that it might not be so great for him if he pushes into the NE corner too hard and too soon. But I'm not ready to say anything to him yet. I *still* have the feeling that there is a stalemate line that holds Mun and not Ber. But I guess that is not correct. I can't see it, in any case. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
I've checked now; there isn't a stalemate line that holds Mun and not Ber, unfortunately. And, if England gets into Livonia, then either Mun or Ber suffices to get her the other center. Eventually. There is a line that holds Ber and not Mun on our side, though, as long as I can keep control of Livonia. That's something to keep in mind, actually. So we'll have to be very careful here. We can't stab Manus until we know we can take and hold Ber, or if we can somehow manage to insure that you end up with a secure Tunis. (That's not going to happen, is it??) Of course, we might be able to fall back on the contingency plan: leave Manus alone until Cal feels he is all settled, have him back off a bunch so we can stab without fear of losing the game. I hope we won't have to do that. Hmmmm. Look, you probably won't like this, but we *might* just try retaking Berlin now in the one sure way we can do it: Mun-Kie, Sil S Pru-Ber, Lvn-Bal. You would be pretty likely to lose Munich, but we could try again next year. And you know, you could *still* build a new fleet, because your army would be destroyed. Yeah, we could probably do all right even without taking Munich. I just have to position another army up in Warsaw and one in Prussia and I can hold onto Berlin forever. That would be easy to do, too. And, come to think of it, you might not lose Munich. Cal has to worry at least a little about Mar S Mun-Bur, so he *might* order Ruh S Bur. Well, think about it anyway. It's probably too late at night and I'm not thinking clearly enough. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Hi- This is a really busy day for me, but just a quick thought: That result wasn't so good. There is a small danger of a breech in the stalemate line now. Because of Berlin falling to England. I have a couple of thoughts on this, which I will probably discuss with Dave, since Manus is not directly involved and is unlikely to be prepared to do a lot of analysis of the problem for me ;-) In the Med area, how about setting up for a little aggression? This would be especially helpful in order to prevent Cal from loading units into the Baltic and Scandinavia. And I think you guys can aggress with complete safety now, too. I'll have specific proposals later. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': > I have a couple of thoughts on this, which I will probably discuss with > Dave, since Manus is not directly involved and is unlikely to be prepared > to do a lot of analysis of the problem for me ;-) > Well, as long as I'm not involved, but I apologize for the impression I've given that I'm an absentee leader. My head is much more back in the game, now, despite the fact that The Pouch Zine issue is STILL just a pack of unedited files.... > In the Med area, how about setting up for a little aggression? This would > be especially helpful in order to prevent Cal from loading units into the > Baltic and Scandinavia. And I think you guys can aggress with complete > safety now, too. > I'm ready for it. Cal has completely abandoned all pretense of friendliness. Manus
Message from England to Master and Russia in
'pouchtoo': cc'ed separately to James >Message from [email protected] as Observer to Master, England and Russia >in 'pouchtoo': > >Well, at least we weren't swept. Now we'll see what the Fab >Three can do... Better start booking tee times... >My theory: the Braves are incredibly talented, but partly because of >Cox's laid-back approach (they don't get chewed out, so >disapproval is sideways at best, and celebration of success is >mild), which works for mid-season slumps, etc. but doesn't >provide intensity in the post-season, they are afraid to lose. You >can tell when they walk back to the dugout after whiffing, or after >an error. It's bottled-up frustration unable to be vented under >Cox's laid-back, but perhaps a bit dysfunctional, managerial style. >The only alternative is to think they are consummate >professionals, but I think that's a bit unrealistic. > >Feedback? This CAN'T be the Bobby Cox who used to manage the Jays?? When he was here he was probably the most emotional manager in the game. A buddy of mine used to do camera for the CBC (that's the Canadian Broadcorping Castration to youse Yanks) and he told me Cox was nearly crazy when he was in the dug out. Cox used to plead with my buddy to point the camera into the opposite dugout so he could try to spot anybody stealing his signs. Also, the profanity was pretty, well, wide and varied. I suppose he COULD have mellowed, but I bet he simply hides it until they get to the locker room... >Otherwise, despite my dislike for McCarver, it's nice not having >Costas in the booth. Self-proclaimed sports poet of the nineties. >Poor AL fans. I guess that's all you guys deserve, being the >junior league and all... Junior by three years nearly a century ago. Get over it, eh? At least we don't play insect ball. I listen to the game on radio with a couple of local announcers, Dan Shulman and Buck Martinez (former Jays catcher). Martinez is, IMHO, the best colour man in the business. Nary a game passes when I don't learn three or four things I didn't know about how to play the game (and I used to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable). Cal
Message from Observer to England and Russia in
'pouchtoo': Cal, >I suppose he COULD have mellowed, but I bet he simply hides it >until they get to the locker room... Not defending, or even all that loyal to Cox himself, but it would surprise me. Press here is pretty bold and nosy, and I'm sure they would uncover anything. A local guy asked two questions last night of M. Tucker: 1) do you think you have redeemed yourself (from poor 2nd half)? 2) do you resent being called an "unlikely hero?" Jeepers, give the guy a moment in the sun, I say. Braves players (esp. former ones - K Lofton, e.g.) sometimes have chafed under the, shall we say, passive-aggressive style. It's just my take, though. >At least we don't play insect ball. Try a new phrase, eh? >Nary a game passes when I don't learn three or four things I >didn't know about how to play the game (and I used to consider >myself reasonably knowledgeable). Come over to the NL. Pinch hitters, double switches, it's amazing what you could learn. Who knows, you might even break a single-season home run record! ;-) Jim p.s. sarcasm aside, what's a "safety squeeze?"
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
So, feedback? Tsar J
Message from Austria to Italy and Russia in
'pouchtoo': Hi guys. My wife's been sick the last two days and I've been home (where I don't have email) trying to deal with the kids (sick too). I'm just in for a second as I had to get some stuff set up for a demo tomorrow. I don't have time for details, but I think we should be fairly aggressive and I expect that Jamie is right about Berlin being integral to our defensive line and we may well want to take it back. Just off the cuff: Mar - Bur, Mun - Kie, Sil s Pru - Ber, Pru - Ber, Lvn - Bal guarantees retaking Ber at the risk of possibly losing Mun. Of course I'd like to keep Mun, but the risk does not seem that large as only Ruhr s Ber/Bur -> Mun would succeed. Attacking from Bur would actually let Mar into Bur, which I don't think Cal will want to risk. I don't know if he'd try coming back from Ber, that would risk Ber without guaranteeing Munich. Another option is Mar - Gas. Anyway, more thoughts tomorrow. Gotta Run. Dave P.S. Manus, if you didn't get the note from the Hasbro mailing list let me know, I'll be meeing with the Hasbro Dip guy this weekend.
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Dave, Sorry about the sick kin. Yep, a lot of that going around! Ok, that plan sounds very good, I agree with your reasoning. I think Manus should order Mar-Bur, not Mar-Gas, but that's up to you guys. I'll do Pie S GoL-Mar again, though I will be really shocked if Cal orders Bur S Spa-Mar! I'm sure he'll support Spain to hold and move Bre-Gas. Once again, I will greatly appreciate it if you guys -- uh, no, if Manus can keep as much pressure on MAO and Spa as possible, so as to prevent Cal >from loading up units against me up north. If we do recapture Berlin and don't lose Mun, then he doesn't build and we might have a little more play left in the game. Dave, I'll check with you later in the week to make sure the plan around Germany is settled. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave, Just a few extra thoughts to ponder while you nurse the sick. I was thinking it might have been a mistake to move Ser-Bud, because it brings the army away from the coast -- Alb, where it has to go for a convoy. But now I'm thinking maybe not. You could move it to Vie, along with the obvious Adr-Ion. Assume that you hold on to Munich. If you build F Tri, you could stab in S1910, bringing Ven-Rom, Ion-Nap!, Tri-Adr, Vie-Tyo, Tyo-Ven. The point is that you won't need to defend Mun, because I'll be able to do that for you from Sil. At least I think this is right. Let's hope Manus doesn't get clever with TyS-Ion for security purposes. Or TyS-Nap. Hmmmm. I'll worry about that later. Then in F1910, Nap S Adr-Ion should do it, supposing that Manus has only the F Tys and no F Tun (and supposing he has disbanded the Turkish army, of course). The safe move also includes A Rom S RUSSIAN A Pie-Tus, because the one thing we couldn't afford would be infiltration of Tus. Even if they do a tricky thing like GoL C ENGLISH A Spa-Pie, there's no real problem. Italy would be tight, and Germany would be locked up too. It would just be a matter of waiting for Cal to eliminate Manus or for Cal to let us eliminate Manus. What if you don't hold Munich this coming season? I'm not sure. We could still set up a convoy, my A Bul going to Gre to be convoyed to Nap or even to Apu. I'm not certain that Tyrolia would be secure, with English armies in Mun and Pie, though. Hm, have to look into our situation in case you don't hold Munich. Anyway, I believe you should move Bud-Vie. Very innocuous-looking, too. And I expect the stab should come in the Spring of 1910. We'll just have to make sure everything is quite secure before the actual move. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Jamie, I made it in today, but probably won't have much time until later in the day as I try to catch up. One quick question, was that bounce in Con planned or was Manus going for a sneak build? I'll have to look at the situation around my homeland. Of course I do want to make sure I'm not setting myself rather than Manus up. Another reason I wanted to see Bul off in Con rather than on my border. Just my paranoia showing through. Kaiser D
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that Con situation. What happened was this. Near deadline time, Manus wrote to me saying that he was going to order Ank-Con, promising to return to Ank if you didn't stab him in the coming move (the one that has now just passed), and to take Smy if you did. That was when I told you I had decided to move Bul-Con after all. I wrote back to Manus, too, somewhat annoyed, and he explained that he meant I could bounce him there if I wanted. So that's what happened. You can survey the area around your homeland, of course, but I do think you'll need to use that A Bud in the stab in one way or another. I plan to order Bul-Con again, without saying anything about it to Manus. I expect he'll order Ank-Con, but if he doesn't that would be better, of course! I think I will also order Rum-Sev. That's a dual-purpose move. It could go to Arm if it turns out that I need to try to control and eliminate the Italian army, or it can go to Mos with Mos-War or Mos-Lvn to participate in the stalemate line up there. Oh, and getting it out of Rum will also ease your border worries, of course. I don't *think* either of us really has to worry about getting stabbed by the other, though I have not checked either side for a couple of moves (this may be the first time in the game I've failed to check that!). I think you could very easily sabotage the Mediterranean line and allow Cal to win that way, and I could sabotage the line on the other side very easily (and you probably could too). Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Blah. Now I've got whatever they had. I'm going home. I may or may not make it in tomorrow. At the moment my plan is to do as outlined before (use Munich to cut Kie so we can retake Ber). That is dependent on Mar - Bur as that greatly increases the chances of my holding Mun. Let me know if anything new comes up. -Dave
Message from Austria to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Cal, Sorry for the silence, I've been overwhelmed at work, then the kids, followed by my wife got sick so I've been home and now I have it, so I'm going back home. Things are proceeding in the right direction in general. Owning Munich makes me more secure about things and it lets me build another fleet which makes the possibility of a stab against Italy much more feasible. As always, I'm working towards the idea of a two-way, but don't want to risk an English solo. Don't be too successful or I'll have to go with the four way! Kaiser D
Message from England to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Austria to England in 'pouchtoo': >Hi Cal, > >Sorry for the silence, I've been overwhelmed at work, then the kids, >followed by my wife got sick so I've been home and now I have it, so >I'm going back home. I can relate, as you could probably guess by how long THIS took to come. My life has been mostly getting settled in at the new house. >Things are proceeding in the right direction in general. Owning Munich >makes me more secure about things and it lets me build another fleet which >makes the possibility of a stab against Italy much more feasible. As >always, I'm working towards the idea of a two-way, but don't want to risk >an English solo. Don't be too successful or I'll have to go with the >four way! I hear you. I'll be trying to take what centres I can just for security's sake. I know for sure I can't get to a point where I would be a threat to win, but I do want to throw up my own stalemate lines if I can. We'll see what the next couple of turns bring. Cal
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': I've looked at this plan: > > Mar - Bur, Mun - Kie, Sil s Pru - Ber, Pru - Ber, Lvn - Bal > guarantees retaking Ber at the risk of possibly losing Mun. Of > course I'd like to keep Mun, but the risk does not seem that large > as only Ruhr s Ber/Bur -> Mun would succeed. Attacking from > Bur would actually let Mar into Bur, which I don't think Cal > will want to risk. I don't know if he'd try coming back from > Ber, that would risk Ber without guaranteeing Munich. > and I like it. > Another option is Mar - Gas. > I like Mar-Bur better. We get Berlin and either Munich or Burgundy. I'll also send Tun-NAf (of course). With Mar-Bur, we need to do the LYO-Mar bit again, with Piedmont support. Unless you guys see a way to be more aggressive, which is what we would rather do. I can send WES fruitlessly against MAO, but that's not all that aggressive. Jamie: how about bouncing in Con again? If Cal doesn't get the point that it's a four way, maybe we can use some year for me to get that unit dislodged and rebuilt in the west. I just don't see a way to put another unit to use out there yet -- kind of crowded. > P.S. Manus, if you didn't get the note from the Hasbro mailing > list let me know, I'll be meeing with the Hasbro Dip guy this > weekend. > I didn't get it! Keep me posted! Put in a good word for The Pouch (he says, megalomaniacally).... Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
Just a stalemate line wasn't good enough for you, huh? Well, okay, I guess we'll have war, then. Of course, you could always leave Spain so the dot stays green. Yeah, I know, when pigs fly, right? Darn. Well, Jamie and Dave are talking four way and they're talking serious. I think that's what we have here. Now that Spain has fallen, I'm obviously not going to just set up a stalemate line and then resume my eastern feast. So I'm with them and I'm already starting to set draw on every turn. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': I've sent mail to Cal telling him to start thinking about accepting a four-way. Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
One more thing. If Rome falls, I will probably do everything in my power to get you the solo. Your taking Spain actually downgraded this from a "definitely" to a "probably," and the more I think about it, I may even downgrade it to a "perhaps." You can still move off the dot to make sure it's a definite, though. Looking for flying pigs, Manus
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': >I've looked at this plan: [snip] >and I like it. Good. >I'll also send Tun-NAf (of course). With Mar-Bur, we need to do the >LYO-Mar bit again, with Piedmont support. Right. > Unless you guys see a way >to be more aggressive, which is what we would rather do. I can >send WES fruitlessly against MAO, but that's not all that aggressive. Well, you could attack Spain with support. But it seems like Cal will order MAO & Por S Spa, doesn't it? I doubt that Mar is in any danger, but I've already sent in the order Pie S GoL-Mar and there is nothing I really want to do with the A Pie. >Jamie: how about bouncing in Con again? Ok. > If Cal doesn't get the point >that it's a four way, maybe we can use some year for me to get that >unit dislodged and rebuilt in the west. I just don't see a way to put >another unit to use out there yet -- kind of crowded. Right. Well, actually, I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but whatever. ;-) Tsar J
Message from Italy to Master in 'pouchtoo':
I hate to do this, and feel free to say no, but my reason for requesting an extension is at least one of the best I've had in a long time. I've actually spent much of this week getting The Pouch out, and this has kept me from just about everything else. It should be actually published tonight! (Finally! Yay!) I'd like to hear from Dave and Jamie before putting in orders, and am not sure this will happen. If it doesn't, and the deadline stays where it is, I can still wing it. Let me know your decision. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': > >I'll also send Tun-NAf (of course). With Mar-Bur, we need to do the > >LYO-Mar bit again, with Piedmont support. > > Right. > So ordered. > Well, you could attack Spain with support. But it seems like Cal will order > MAO & Por S Spa, doesn't it? > Yeah; it's almost a no-brainer. But he could think that's what we think, so he might send MAO to NAf to bounce me. So I guess WES S Tun-NAf is the best choice. > I doubt that Mar is in any danger, but I've > already sent in the order Pie S GoL-Mar and there is nothing I really want > to do with the A Pie. > LYO-Mar it is, then. > >Jamie: how about bouncing in Con again? > > Ok. > Okay. I have a remove to make, though, so this might be the last time we get to do this. On that subject, allow me to humbly ask which of the three of us can afford a remove most? Should I send Ank-Smy (and take it from Dave, allowing him to remove his fleet or something -- or would he even HAVE a remove if we get Berlin back and keep Munich?) or should Jamie let me into Con if HE can afford a remove?? > Right. > Well, actually, I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but whatever. ;-) > Cool. :-) Manus
Message from Austria to Russia and Italy in
'pouchtoo': How about we remove the army in Ank and just leave Turkey unoccuppied with nobody having any units there? I made it back to work today but have a million things to catch up on so as I didn't see any changes I'll let my orders stand with the plan and talk to you all Monday. Dave
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': Okay, then, I'll take a unit off. :-( Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, my orders are in. I'm sending TYS-Rom. Do you think that's paranoid? I just see that if Ven-Rom, ADR-ION, I lose everything but Mar and Tunis and they sure can't hold out long after I suffer three removes. I just feel like I'm being set up for the big fall. I'd like to see Dave cram his army back into Austria, and now I can't remember why I thought a new red fleet was a good idea. I've set a wait, so if you want to either council me against TYS-Rom or else suggest I go ahead with Ank-Smy and keep Dave from basically taking a unit from my side of the alliance to his, you have until the deadline. Hope to hear from you, Manus
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Sorry about this -- today, and generally on Fridays, I have little time in the afternoon and I have to leave quite early. >Okay, then, I'll take a unit off. :-( > >Manus It's true that we might have planned this better. If we *knew* that Dave was going to hold Munich, I think maybe it would be better for him to be the one to remove. I'm not sure. Hm. Maybe not. It kind of looks like Cal is going to lock the door on Gibraltar, which means the excess units should belong to me and Dave. On the other hand, if there isn't enough pressure on Gibraltar (including Spain), Cal can withdraw a fleet from the west and use it to complete his control of the Bal/Scand region. Well, I think that Manus is not going to need a new unit until/unless he breaks into Cal's territory, so it's probably not a great problem (because if/when that happens, Manus will be able to get Spain). And in any case, I believe that this coming year Cal will wake up and smell the coffee-flavored draw. Er, the draw-flavored coffee. On that topic: if we do decide to give up on beating down Cal, which is fine with me by the way, then I think we all ought to play moves that are very, excessively, almost absurdly friendly toward each other. The only thing that's going to keep Cal from setting DRAW is the prospect, however slim, of seeing us fight each other. Ok, well, let's work out details on Monday. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Argh! Ok, but really, I have to go after this! ;-) >Okay, my orders are in. I'm sending TYS-Rom. Do you think >that's paranoid? Yes, but go ahead if you like. > I just see that if Ven-Rom, ADR-ION, I lose >everything but Mar and Tunis and they sure can't hold out long >after I suffer three removes. Ummm. I see, you mean he could easily take Naples later. That's true, yes. But I think you would not have much trouble throwing the game to Cal, myself. Even with the depleted forces. Have you really tried working this out on the board? Also, keep in mind that Dave is at least a little worried about me. I think he is pretty happy that you are insisting on bouncing in Con, since that ties up my A Bul. He's stripping his defenses of Austria-Hungary proper, which certainly makes him nervous. I expect him to be changing his position to something that absolutely insures that he will be able to throw the game to England. I don't have much of an idea how he'll do it, though. I was a little surprised that he agreed so readily to endanger Mun to get me Ber. >I just feel like I'm being set up for the big fall. I'd like >to see Dave cram his army back into Austria, and now I can't >remember why I thought a new red fleet was a good idea. That may be part of Dave's plans -- that a red fleet gives him a great deal of leverage in case he is stabbed. >I've set a wait, so if you want to either council me against >TYS-Rom or else suggest I go ahead with Ank-Smy and keep >Dave from basically taking a unit from my side of the alliance >to his, you have until the deadline. Yikes, I really hope you will not take Smyrna. It would be different if we had made a whole plan with that in mind, including last season's moves, but if you do it now, I don't know how he will react. Although I personally would not order TyS-Rom, I guess I think you are 'within your rights' to do it. I hope it doesn't begin an escalation of 'defensive' manouvers by you and Dave. If it's at all relevant, I think it would be a dumb move for Austria to order Ven-Rom. He would have to be feeling awfully lucky or cocky. You haven't told him about your 'Swedish' approach to the game, have you?? I hope not! You don't want him to think you will cling to any hope of a draw rather than throw the game! You want him to think that your attitude is like his. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, Jose, are we now in favor of the coffee-flavored draw? Hard to sneak up on Manus by being excessively friendly or are you trying to allay his fears and figure we can hit him soon enough that this won't matter? There is the little matter of my building another fleet, which may well set the alarm bells jangling over in Manusville. > On that topic: if we do > decide to give up on beating down Cal, which is fine with me by the way, > then I think we all ought to play moves that are very, excessively, almost > absurdly friendly toward each other. The only thing that's going to keep > Cal from setting DRAW is the prospect, however slim, of seeing us fight > each other. > Kaiser D
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Just a stalemate line wasn't good enough for you, huh? Well, okay, I guess >we'll have war, then. Of course, you could always leave Spain so the dot >stays green. Yeah, I know, when pigs fly, right? > >Darn. > >Well, Jamie and Dave are talking four way and they're talking serious. >I think that's what we have here. Now that Spain has fallen, I'm obviously >not going to just set up a stalemate line and then resume my eastern feast. >So I'm with them and I'm already starting to set draw on every turn. For the record, I saw everyone of you start heading my direction and also seem to come to an agreement about the Turkish dots, so I figured it was time to round up the wagons, damn the torpedos, mix ALL the metaphors and just head 'em up and move 'em out. If you figure out what the preceding sentence means, let me know. What I was trying to say that, since it looked like you guys had already gotten together, there was no reason to do anything else but attack on as many fronts as you guys were moving towards. We'll see where the chips fall. It won't be a four-way. I'll throw YOU my centres first rather than permit that. Ciaosers Cal
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': > >One more thing. If Rome falls, I will probably do everything in my power >to get you the solo. Your taking Spain actually downgraded this from a >"definitely" to a "probably," and the more I think about it, I may even >downgrade it to a "perhaps." You can still move off the dot to make >sure it's a definite, though. Does it count for anything the fact that I haven't broken my promise to stay out of Mediterranean waters? ;-) >Looking for flying pigs, Better get an umbrella. Cal
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Oh, glad you arrived. >Okay, Jose, are we now in favor of the coffee-flavored draw? Hard to >sneak up on Manus by being excessively friendly or are you trying to >allay his fears and figure we can hit him soon enough that this won't >matter? The latter. Also, I felt I had to say something very mollifying, because he is clearly getting pretty worried. >There is the little matter of my building another fleet, which >may well set the alarm bells jangling over in Manusville. Indeed, but it was going to do that anyway. We have all kinds of problems, actually, but I'm still *hoping* they will go away, and I have one or two ideas on how to solve them. Manus has told me that he really is afraid of you. He asked me if I thought it would be a very bad idea if he just took Smyrna anyway. (I told him it would.) He also asked me what I thought about his moving TyS-Rom. I said, I didn't think he ought to, but that he would be 'within his rights'. I couldn't think of anything else to say. If I came right out and said, "Oh no, don't do that!", what would Manus think? In fact, I kind of suspect he was testing me, figuring that if I did strongly insist that he not cover Rome it must mean I wanted to help you get an easy stab. Now, if he does cover Rome, obviously that's trouble. What I am hoping is that (a) having worried about you stabbing him for two seasons without its happening, he'll begin to feel a little sheepish and move out of Rome again; (b) he will at least disband the Turkish army, in which case I think we get a good stab in anyway; and (c) once he moves the fleet to Rome he will not mind so much your building another fleet. I tried hard to think of a good reason for you to build the second fleet. (Manus says that he can't understand what he was thinking when he agreed that your *first* fleet was a good idea!) First I considered the approach of saying that with all of Manus's hedging you were getting a little defensive yourself. But that's no good, since he obviously doesn't threaten you at all. So I'm going with this idea instead: Dave is still pretty worried that Russia will stab *him*, and he wants to make good and sure he has lots of leverage to throw the game. This has the virtue of being true (to some extent, right?), and also it is indeed a good reason for you to build a fleet insofar as it *is* true. What do you think, by the way -- if Manus moves to Rom and *stays* there, *and* you build an army, is there any way we could pull off a stab? I haven't worked it out yet. I think it might still be possible. If he sits in Rome and you build a *fleet*, then I think there's still a good stab as long as he does nothing else to protect himself. (You can jump into Naples in the Spring and move Ven-Tus, XXX-Ven, Tri-Adr, and then in the Fall take Rome and move into Ionian and everything looks very tight.) Along these same lines, after the winter adjustments you can start making all kinds of promises, since the Spring moves could be the stabbing moves. You can't start promising him anything yet, though. Unless he insists, I guess. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
p.s. I'm going home now. I know you don't have email access over the weekend, and nowadays I generally don't either. Talk to you Monday, then. Let's just cross our fingers and hope Manus doesn't do anything especially rash....
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Argh! Ok, but really, I have to go after this! ;-) > I am writing this, then, in hopes that you are long gone. > >Okay, my orders are in. I'm sending TYS-Rom. Do you think > >that's paranoid? > > Yes, but go ahead if you like. > Even the paranoid sometimes get attacked. > Ummm. I see, you mean he could easily take Naples later. > Yeah. I couldn't stop him. > That's true, yes. But I think you would not have much trouble throwing the > game to Cal, myself. Even with the depleted forces. Have you really tried > working this out on the board? > I have, and that was my conclusion, too -- that I could swing it to Cal without a problem. I'm glad to see that you agree, is all. > Also, keep in mind that Dave is at least a little worried about me. I think > he is pretty happy that you are insisting on bouncing in Con, since that > ties up my A Bul. He's stripping his defenses of Austria-Hungary proper, > which certainly makes him nervous. I expect him to be changing his position > to something that absolutely insures that he will be able to throw the game > to England. I don't have much of an idea how he'll do it, though. I was a > little surprised that he agreed so readily to endanger Mun to get me Ber. > Yeah; I was happy about that, too. Dave seems to be getting the lion's share of the successes we have had lately, and so I'm glad he's going to share the wealth a bit. > That may be part of Dave's plans -- that a red fleet gives him a great deal > of leverage in case he is stabbed. > Yeah. :-( It's also a pretty good way to get around and stab me. > Yikes, I really hope you will not take Smyrna. It would be different if we > had made a whole plan with that in mind, including last season's moves, but > if you do it now, I don't know how he will react. > I will not order it. > Although I personally would not order TyS-Rom, I guess I think you are > 'within your rights' to do it. I hope it doesn't begin an escalation of > 'defensive' manouvers by you and Dave. If it's at all relevant, I think it > would be a dumb move for Austria to order Ven-Rom. He would have to be > feeling awfully lucky or cocky. > Well, he could slam me down to two units easy, and then I wouldn't have much say about what happens. I don't know how much strength a throw-game threat can have coming from someone who only owns Tunis and Marseilles. Anyway, I'll play the middle-man game and do TYS-Rom but not Ank-Smy. If he stays constant, as I expect, I'll give up my Turkish unit :-( If not, well, I'll toss the game to Cal. Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Does it count for anything the fact that I haven't broken my promise to stay > out of Mediterranean waters? ;-) > A little, I guess. I probably should have insisted that my SC's be included in that agreement. I suppose I thought it went without saying. > >Looking for flying pigs, > > Better get an umbrella. > I got me a big one, and I'm doing the strangest rain dance you've ever seen. Manus
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> For the record, I saw everyone of you start heading my direction and also > seem to come to an agreement about the Turkish dots, so I figured it was > time to round up the wagons, damn the torpedos, mix ALL the metaphors and > just head 'em up and move 'em out. > I understand that, and I would probably have done the same in your situation. I thought I had explained, though, that my own motivation was not anti-E but simply pro-stalemate line. I suppose you didn't find that credible, and I guess I understand that too. I just think it's a sad turn of events that you went out on your own now. > If you figure out what the preceding > sentence means, let me know. > If you figure out what my reply to it means, we'll be even. :-) > What I was trying to say that, since it looked > like you guys had already gotten together, there was no reason to do > anything else but attack on as many fronts as you guys were moving towards. > We'll see where the chips fall. > It won't be a four-way. > Well, I hope you're right. Unfortunately, if it's not, I'm the prime candidate to be cut out. That's why right now, without you on my side, I guess the best I can see for me is the darned four-way. > I'll throw YOU my centres first rather than permit that. > Now THERE'S an idea. Can we start with Spain (after all, it's still mine). Then maybe next year, I could build instead of remove. I'm getting the shaft from both sides, and all I can do to stay in the game is block Gibraltar, so my removes, as they come, are forced until I decide to just let you through and hope you win. I would think that you might want to build me up rather than pick me apart; that's why this turn of events is so sad for me. > Ciaosers > Yup. Manus
Build
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Guess I'm going to have to negotiate after all... ;) On the slight hope that the unit in Rome ISN'T what you want to remove (as per your expressed trepidations of last turn), what are the odds (aka price) of A Bur being the unit removed? Cal
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>I am writing this, then, in hopes that you are long gone. I was. >I have, and that was my conclusion, too -- that I could swing it to Cal >without a problem. I'm glad to see that you agree, is all. That's good. Let me add, in case you hadn't already noticed, that Dave is at least as able as I am to see who can throw what to whom. I think we'll all be happier once we realize that the others are fully competent. :-) >Yeah; I was happy about that, too. Dave seems to be getting the lion's >share of the successes we have had lately, and so I'm glad he's going to >share the wealth a bit. Indeed -- especially considering the actual outcome. Cal's moves are almost prescient. If it weren't so clear that none of the three of us gains by Cal's good guesses, I would be pretty suspicious! Wes-Spa would have been really nice, by the way, and of course Mar&GoL S Wes-Spa would have been awesome! Oh well. We'll have some chances in the seasons ahead to make our own really good guesses. >Anyway, I'll play the middle-man game and do TYS-Rom but not Ank-Smy. >If he stays constant, as I expect, I'll give up my Turkish unit :-( >If not, well, I'll toss the game to Cal. Whew. ;-) Ok. So, on with the show! I have not actually plotted the position after these results, but it certainly seems to me that there ought to be some opportunities for advancement. I like my Baltic fleet right now, for instance, and your A Bur surely gives you some possibilities. Only Dave is being shut out. Which could be a problem, come to think of it. :-( Will he be the next one to get panicky feelings? Let's make it clear that we know he could throw the game too, if he wanted. Should we just stop advancing and make a big show of standing fast all together on the stalemate line? I think Cal fully expects us to nip away as long as we can. I'd hate to disappoint him. ;-) Tsar J
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
> Guess I'm going to have to negotiate after all... ;) > > On the slight hope that the unit in Rome ISN'T what you want to remove (as > per your expressed trepidations of last turn), what are the odds (aka price) > of A Bur being the unit removed? > Airborne pigs are the first thing that come to mind.... :-) But start talking. I don't know if I'll pay that price, but it would be nice to see things turn so that in a future year I could do something for you. Manus
Message from England to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': > >> Guess I'm going to have to negotiate after all... ;) >> >> On the slight hope that the unit in Rome ISN'T what you want to remove (as >> per your expressed trepidations of last turn), what are the odds (aka price) >> of A Bur being the unit removed? >> >Airborne pigs are the first thing that come to mind.... :-) > >But start talking. I don't know if I'll pay that price, but it would >be nice to see things turn so that in a future year I could do something >for you. How high do the pigs have to fly? I'd certainly be willing to give you Spain back along with a commitment to do nothing on the Med front other than setting up a stalemate line. Howzzat? Cal
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': FYI, Cal offered me Spain back if I would remove Burgundy. I thought this was fairly laughable and figured you might too. Manus
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Well, it wasn't *that* funny. You can't blame him for trying! Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Did I miss something leading up to this or are you just referring to the moves? > Message from [email protected] as Russia to Austria and Italy in > 'pouchtoo': > > Well, it wasn't *that* funny. You can't blame him for trying! > > Tsar J > > >
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
>Did I miss something leading up to this or are you just referring to >the moves? Yeah, you apparently missed Manus's note to the two of us, thus: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Message from [email protected] as Italy to Austria and Russia in 'pouchtoo': FYI, Cal offered me Spain back if I would remove Burgundy. I thought this was fairly laughable and figured you might too. Manus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Get it? More in a moment. Tsar j
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
So, the main question at the moment is whether you are going to build a fleet. As a matter of fact, it kind of looks to me like you could get away with it. Even supposing Manus absolutely panics and instantly tries to throw the game to Cal, what can he do? Suppose he brings Rom-Nap, Wes-TyS, Naf-Tun, Mar-GoL, just by ordering Ion-TyS you keep him from getting three fleets against Ion, and with Tri-Adr you get yourself enough protection. Ven-Rom, Ser-Alb, and you can convoy into Naples in the Fall with support from A Rom, dislodging the Italian F Naples (which I'm assuming went there). It retreats to Apulia, dangerous-looking -- but Manus will be down to two units! So his three fleets against Ionian are no good, one of them gets removed in W1910. And you would build three! So then in S1911, you would destroy the ITAL F Apu (if he keeps it -- otherwise everything is trivial), and we have the stalemate line. So why don't you look that over and see what's wrong with it. Must be something. The alternatives are also fairly attractive, of course. I bet you could build A Tri and still stab him, or even A Vie. (I haven't worked through those possibilities, though.) And we'll get you Munich this year for sure and I'll keep Berlin, and I will destroy the English F Pru unless he does something really weird like drive me into Denmark or Kiel. So really, I think we could even just delay the stab another year and still be fine. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Oooh, wait. I forgot that if Manus decided it was time to throw the game, he could have A Bur S A Mun, and you would not get Munich, at least not right away. That could be a problem. I'd better look this over again. Tsar J
Message from Austria to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
I'm not going to have time to really look it over until tonight, but a couple of things that might throw in some monkey wrenches. 1) Manus's disbands Rome instead of the army? 2) Cal gives Manus Paris to offset the losses so he can keep the southern units after we stab in the spring? -Dave
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Hm, well, now I am not so sanguine about forcing the draw if Manus decides to throw right away. I do think we'd get Munich back eventually, but what I missed was that Manus would not necessarily have to order Rom-Nap. He could order Rom S Wes-TyS, for example, and then the stabbing move Ven-Rom, Ion-TyS would be an awful stab. That line looks pretty bad (not hopeless, but I see a real chance for Cal to win). Therefore, I kind of think you might not want to build a fleet. It would be nice to see what Manus says, but I doubt he will say anything before the adjustment deadline tonight. A Vie or A Tri probably come to the same thing, since you can just have the new army replace A Tyo when you take Munich in the Spring. I figure stabbing in the Fall ought to be quite safe, and if not, we could always wait. Now you talk. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Oh good, you *were* talking. >1) Manus's disbands Rome instead of the army? He's going to disband the army, so he tells me. >2) Cal gives Manus Paris to offset the losses so he can keep > the southern units after we stab in the spring? Yeah. Right, I guess I agree. We can't stab until/unless we can set up that F Ion/F Adr stalemate, or be sure of setting it up. So, as I just said (crossed messages), your build and spring move ought to be friendly. I can't order Bul-Con either, unfortunately. But if we play the cards right, we should be able to get Manus to order Rom-TyS-Wes, don't you think? Just look at the position, it's begging for that sequence. (Manus gets a real shot at Spain too, I think.) In that case, it's trivial for you to stab for Rom and Nap in the Fall, then Tri-Adr, Nap-Ion in Spring 1911. That locks the seas and we can plug up the boot with armies easily, and we'll own Mun and Ber, and I'll take Ank in 1911. Hell, we might be able to start beating up on Cal! I think my F Bal is quite problematic for him. Tsar J Tsar J
Message from Russia to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Well, I'll be building that boring old army in Warsaw. I should have ordered Stp-Fin last season, that would have been fun. Two northern fleets, I'd be giving Cal something to think about! Oh well. Just this F Baltic will be enough to get him dancing around for a while, trying to hold Den and Kie and Swe and not let me out. I think he'll give up Munich without a fight come Spring, what do you bet? And he might let me into Den in the Spring, kicking me out in the Fall. But then I'll retreat to Helg. :-) Manus, I'll meet you in NAO. We'll have to convoy Dave to Clyde for a glass of whiskey. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria and Russia in
'pouchtoo': I have entered my order to remove the Ankara army. I'll still see if Cal is willing to give Spain back, but I won't be holding my breath. Manus
Message from Austria to Russia and Italy in
'pouchtoo': Sorry not to have joined in all the fun. I spent the weekend doing Diplomatic Incident and my brain is still in a fog. I don't understand it, I played Dip all day Saturday, then after dinner played other games until one oclock or so, then drove an hour home to NH, got up at 7:30, played with my kids for an hour, played in a soccer game, drove back to Boston, gamed until midnight, drove home, got up this morning and came to work and for some reason I'm tired? That never used to happen. I must be an old phart now! Anyway, guess I'll mirror the old boring moscow build with the boring army tri. Kaiser D. P.S. Too many armies in this game, at one point in the game on Saturday we had 19 fleets on the board!
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> And you know, if you had F GoL instead of F Rom, then you'd have a really > good shot at Spain indeed! > Point well taken. > Oh well. Safety always has its costs. > Yes, there is such a thing as cold comfort. :-( Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >By the way, this is more interesting than I thought. I didn't expect that >'we' would cause you so much trouble. You're kind of stretched a little >thin now, with Manus banging on the western door and me still noodling >around with that last pesky fleet. > >Your moves the last two seasons *seemed* very clever, even very lucky >guesses... but I wonder whether you wouldn't have been better off just >ceding Mun and Ber, and keeping my fleet pinned to the coast.... Yeah, I agree. Especially as how I had figured out exactly what moves you guys were going to do. Burgandy's a hell of a lot more troublesome than I thought it would be. Oh well, just another ending to MY kick at the can similar to yours. :) >This next year ought to be interesting. Lucky for you Manus decided to >cover Rome, huh? A F GOL would be quite troublesome for you. Yup. Cal
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
By the way, this is more interesting than I thought. I didn't expect that 'we' would cause you so much trouble. You're kind of stretched a little thin now, with Manus banging on the western door and me still noodling around with that last pesky fleet. Your moves the last two seasons *seemed* very clever, even very lucky guesses... but I wonder whether you wouldn't have been better off just ceding Mun and Ber, and keeping my fleet pinned to the coast.... This next year ought to be interesting. Lucky for you Manus decided to cover Rome, huh? A F GOL would be quite troublesome for you. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
And you know, if you had F GoL instead of F Rom, then you'd have a really good shot at Spain indeed! Oh well. Safety always has its costs. Tsar J
Message from Russia to Italy and Austria in
'pouchtoo': >I have entered my order to remove the Ankara army. I'll still see if >Cal is willing to give Spain back, but I won't be holding my breath. > >Manus He may not have much choice about it, you know. Let's see. Yeah. Look, he has to cover Paris, right? With the A Gas. You could move Bur-Gas. Cal may be building a fleet to go to Iri or Eng, but I think he's going to want to build two fleets to make sure he can contain my F Bal. That would mean that in the Fall you could have Gas, Mar, and Wes all against Spain, with Naf-MAO. Or you could order an attack on MAO, with Gas-Bre and Mar-Spa, getting in if Por is supporting Spain. You have real chances now, I think. These drop to just peskiness with the A Bur if Cal sails another fleet west, but then I have real chances myself. This next year ought to be quite interesting. Tsar J