| Press for Spring of 1906 in pouchtoo |
Movement
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Ah. There we go. Now, is there a delay, or do we play this round? Do you remember? Jamie
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
I don't suppose that you would be willing to tell me what your fleet plans are, would you? As a sort of initiation of the dreaded IR alliance (from what I hear, possibly the only remaining alliance on the board!)? Tsar J
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Ok, so let's play. I'm ordering A Kie S A Bur-Mun. Do you want me to order Sil S Bur-Mun, or Sil-Boh? (I slightly prefer the latter.) Also, shall we order Nwy-Swe, Swe-Nwy? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, frankly, I don't see any reason NOT to tell you. However, I haven't looked at the map yet (perhaps I shouldn't admit to that -- that was why you tossed me overboard last time!) Well, I'll pull up a map and look, and unless I see reason not to tell you, I'll tell you. If I find that I can't tell you, well, I won't, but I hope our "alliance" (ho ho ho) remains strong nonetheless. :-) Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Dave: Jamie wrote to ask me if I would mind telling him what my fleet is doing, as a token of good faith in the "I/R" that he and I have been joking about. Do you have any idea for how I might be able to answer him and then actually follow through co that perhaps (maybe it's a pipe dream, but...) he might also let word slip to me concerning his moves, especially if I come in contact with him to coordinate an attack on you (which, of course, would fail big-time as I would simply pass operational plans to you). This might give Cal time to get his assault moving. I obviously don't want to hurt our cause and am fine just sitting here holding if Cal will grant me leave to do it, but if you have any idea for how I can help us by appearing not to and spreading some butter on Jamie, please let me know.... I just guess that since Jamie is interested in my fleet order, perhaps I *can* be useful and do something other than sit on my hands and root for you and Cal. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
One more thing -- have you gotten a bead on Cal's plans yet? Is he going to hit Jamie or will he finish me off. If he does, obviously you give Jamie the game, but do you know if he believes this yet? Is he even back >from vacation yet? I cannot recall. Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hi Manus, Well, I suppose you could tell Jamie that you are going to extract your pound of flesh from me, but that if he wants the I/R to go forward he needs to explain how he's going to move against England, especially as he declined to build a fleet in Stp. As to Cal, I don't remember if he is back yet or not. He's said he believes us, but it's hard to know if it is real. Of course I don't really want or plan to give the game to Jamie, but if Cal does attack you and not Jamie, then I do plan to hand Jamie sufficient centers that the win will be inevitable if Cal does not attack. Just as with you I'm sure, if I'm not in on the final draw, then it doesn't matter to me what the outcome is. If there are those who won't help me to that goal, then I'll do my best to make the threat to them real enough that they have to. Personally, I see little way that either of us can be in on a two way or less draw. There is not a lot of extra satisfaction in a 3 way rather than a 4 way, and doing so at the expense of attacking you again to benefit Jamie is definitely not in my plans. The real danger I see is that E/R may decide they can pull off a carefully balanced 2 way and eliminate both of us. That's the danger I'm fighting against and the reason I'd run Jamie up to 16 or 17 immediately if Cal started your way. Screw up the balance and the 2 way won't work. Hopefully of course you concur (<:. -Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
I most certainly do concur. On each and every point. I will tell Jamie I'm willing to attack you, but question his lack of a StP fleet and see what he says....
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Well, at this point, I am leaning towards extracting my pound of flesh >from Dave as long as Cal doesn't keep attacking me. This, however, is a big concern. Since you didn't build in St. Pete (why not?) it looks to me like the E/R is still intact and Dave and I can start thinking about putting our heads between our legs, so maybe I should find common cause with him instead of attack him. Still pondering (obviously). Which way are you headed, though? I am reluctant to commit to an I/R (again, ho ho ho) until I see some serious attack by you on Cal. What's up in that regard? Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>Well, at this point, I am leaning towards extracting my pound of flesh >from Dave as long as Cal doesn't keep attacking me. This, however, is >a big concern. Since you didn't build in St. Pete (why not?) it looks >to me like the E/R is still intact and Dave and I can start thinking >about putting our heads between our legs, so maybe I should find common >cause with him instead of attack him. > >Still pondering (obviously). Which way are you headed, though? I >am reluctant to commit to an I/R (again, ho ho ho) until I see some >serious attack by you on Cal. What's up in that regard? I have no objection to laying my cards on the table. Which way am I headed? I am certainly headed into Austria! Was there some doubt in your mind about that? As to the North, everything's up in the air at the moment. I don't know what will happen. I decided not to build in Stp because (a) I can certainly use all the builds in the south, in any case, and (2) I am still hoping that maybe Cal will do something other than attack me, or at least not commit all his forces to attacking me. Building in Stp would practically force Cal to attack me full throttle. If Cal had been successful in his insidious stab last move, I would be pretty confident that he was going to stay with the E/R alliance. As it turned out, I guess I think it's more likely than not that he'll be gunning for Kiel or StP. But it's a chance I'm going to take, partly because I think I could come out all right if Cal does take a northern center or three from me, so long as I've knocked Dave down to an unthreatening size. I think you'd be silly to launch a serious attack against Austria right now, frankly, much as it would help me. For one thing, you ought to wait until it's easier for you, say after he vacates Venice of his own free will. (If I'm lucky, that will be at the end of 1906 when I've forced him to remove units!) That way you get the center without having to devote the units. And for another thing, I think you'd be making a big mistake to trust King Kal entirely -- again, just from general considerations, not because I am especially confident that I know what he's going to do. He might decide that he can attack on both wings. He'd probably be right, too. If I had to guess, that'd be my guess. If you could capture Venice without a real struggle this year, that would be different. I think that would be smart, because Dave couldn't really complain about it and you'd be up to five centers, a considerable leap for you in survivability. Seems to me that to have any real chance of finishing the game alive, you need to get to five centers, and probably six. (King Kal will be keenly aware of this, by the way. Did you see any of the Ghodstoo ending?) My basic outlook is this. If I can avoid having absolutely everybody fighting me at once, I'll be happy. I never meant nor wanted to be the leader at this stage, and I wouldn't mind at all if Kal turned out to be the dark horse endgame leader. What I really really don't want is to have Austria thrashing around with a big cache of centers, able and willing to throw the game to England. If I can eliminate him with your help, then we've got a relatively easy time preventing Kal from romping, even if he does launch a two-prong offensive now. Maybe he could win anyway, or maybe I could, or maybe you'd hold a lot of crucial middle territory and we'd end in a 3-way -- I don't pretend to be able to see how it would end. On the other hand, if I can't eliminate or at least crush Austria because you're propping him up, and Cal is attacking me too, then I would have to play a riskier strategy. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Here are the pertinent parts of Jamie's response: > I have no objection to laying my cards on the table. > > Which way am I headed? I am certainly headed into Austria! Was there some > doubt in your mind about that? > > As to the North, everything's up in the air at the moment. I don't know > what will happen. I decided not to build in Stp because (a) I can certainly > use all the builds in the south, in any case, and (2) I am still hoping > that maybe Cal will do something other than attack me, or at least not > commit all his forces to attacking me. Building in Stp would practically > force Cal to attack me full throttle. If Cal had been successful in his > insidious stab last move, I would be pretty confident that he was going to > stay with the E/R alliance. As it turned out, I guess I think it's more > likely than not that he'll be gunning for Kiel or StP. But it's a chance > I'm going to take, partly because I think I could come out all right if Cal > does take a northern center or three from me, so long as I've knocked Dave > down to an unthreatening size. > > My basic outlook is this. If I can avoid having absolutely everybody > fighting me at once, I'll be happy. I never meant nor wanted to be the > leader at this stage, and I wouldn't mind at all if Kal turned out to be > the dark horse endgame leader. What I really really don't want is to have > Austria thrashing around with a big cache of centers, able and willing to > throw the game to England. If I can eliminate him with your help, then > we've got a relatively easy time preventing Kal from romping, even if he > does launch a two-prong offensive now. Maybe he could win anyway, or maybe > I could, or maybe you'd hold a lot of crucial middle territory and we'd end > in a 3-way -- I don't pretend to be able to see how it would end. On the > other hand, if I can't eliminate or at least crush Austria because you're > propping him up, and Cal is attacking me too, then I would have to play a > riskier strategy. > > Tsar J >
Message from Italy to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hey Cal -- I don't know if you're back yet, but in case you are, I thought I'd get you these quotes from Jamie. Not surprisingly, he is wanting to make sure that I use my fleet to head west, not prop up Dave, and it sounds like he's praying that you don't turn on hom. All the more reason for you to do so, I say (and hope). > As to the North, everything's up in the air at the moment. I don't know > what will happen. I decided not to build in Stp because (a) I can certainly > use all the builds in the south, in any case, and (2) I am still hoping > that maybe Cal will do something other than attack me, or at least not > commit all his forces to attacking me. Building in Stp would practically > force Cal to attack me full throttle. If Cal had been successful in his > insidious stab last move, I would be pretty confident that he was going to > stay with the E/R alliance. As it turned out, I guess I think it's more > likely than not that he'll be gunning for Kiel or StP. But it's a chance > I'm going to take, partly because I think I could come out all right if Cal > does take a northern center or three from me, so long as I've knocked Dave > down to an unthreatening size. >
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
> > ... On the > > other hand, if I can't eliminate or at least crush Austria because you're > > propping him up, and Cal is attacking me too, then I would have to play a > > riskier strategy. > > > > Tsar J > > That part sounds good to me, I like the idea of Russia taking some risks (<:. As before, I ask only that you not take me out merely to move from a 4 way to a 3 way draw. If you can move to go for a win, then I could be persuaded to be a willing sacrifice! As far as "attacking me", you should be able to force the Ionian on that basis, which is what we want anyway. I can safely attack with that fleet by attacking EAS where his fleet is currently placed. If he moves to Aeg, then I'm in EAS. If he holds, then I retreat to Aeg. As to armies, well, I'm at your mercy anyway, so if you want to move Rome to Venice that is fine by me. I don't think it would be a good idea for you to actually take the center as my units are on the front line, but having you in in the spring and out in the fall is not a problem. Before we do that though I need to review the board and my moves to make sure that I will be able to guarantee vacating Venice. A bounce would cause a delay that we definitely don't want. What are your ideas for our actual unit movements? Do you feel you need to cover Mar or are you going to leave it open and concentrate on the east? What about Hohn, have you heard from him at all? Regards Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> That part sounds good to me, I like the idea of Russia taking some risks (<:. > Hear, hear -- it'd be about dang time, wouldn't it?! > As before, I ask only that you not take me out merely to move from a 4 way > to a 3 way draw. If you can move to go for a win, then I could be persuaded > to be a willing sacrifice! > Ha! Me take YOU out? Me have a chance at ANYthing less than a four-way? It is to laugh. But thanks for the thought. > As far as "attacking me", you should be able to force the Ionian on that > basis, which is what we want anyway. I can safely attack with that fleet > by attacking EAS where his fleet is currently placed. If he moves to Aeg, > then I'm in EAS. If he holds, then I retreat to Aeg. > Right. I will, however, make noise to Cal that I'll be guarding the Med. I'm deathly afraid that he'll sneak around Spain and we'll both die at E/R's hands. It'll be a race for me to give centers to Cal and you give them to Jamie to make sure we spoil at least one of their Christmases. > As to armies, well, I'm at your mercy anyway, so if you want to move Rome > to Venice that is fine by me. I don't think it would be a good idea for > you to actually take the center as my units are on the front line, but > having you in in the spring and out in the fall is not a problem. > If I move to Venice, it would be a Springtime visit. Do not worry; I will not jeopardize any semblance of defense that we might have. > Before > we do that though I need to review the board and my moves to make sure that > I will be able to guarantee vacating Venice. A bounce would cause a delay > that we definitely don't want. > Right. Let me know. > What are your ideas for our actual unit movements? Do you feel you need to > cover Mar or are you going to leave it open and concentrate on the east? > What about Hohn, have you heard from him at all? > Have heard nothing from Hohn and have thought nothing of Marseilles. Unfortunately, it's almost the case that I have to trust that Cal sees the light and moves everything north and east. I sent him some excerpts >from Jamie's mail to me that at least gave ME the impression that Russian centers will be easy for Cal to take and that Jamie truly doesn't want that to happen (all the more reason for Cal to do it, I say). Manus
Message from England to Italy and Austria in
'pouchtoo': >Message from [email protected] as Italy to England in 'pouchtoo': Was simply going to reply to Manus, but I think I may as well CC this to Dave as well. We're all in the same gravy boat here >I don't know if you're back yet, but in case you are, I thought I'd >get you these quotes from Jamie. Not surprisingly, he is wanting to make >sure that I use my fleet to head west, not prop up Dave, and it sounds >like he's praying that you don't turn on hom. All the more reason for >you to do so, I say (and hope). I've been back for a while now but concerned with other things. Guess my head will get back in the game after a few letters... [Quote from Russia where he proves just how scared he's running...]
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Ok, so let's play. Don't know about you, but the layoff means I'm having a hard time getting back into the game mentally. I suppose that will change once we resume "l'attaque", but for now my mind is elsewhere (mostly on fighting SPAM and designing web pages, but that's a story for later...). >I'm ordering A Kie S A Bur-Mun. >Do you want me to order Sil S Bur-Mun, or Sil-Boh? (I slightly prefer the >latter.) Go for the latter then and do what you want with Kiel. Remember we were talking about whether or not we should go for Munich now or in the Fall? Well, I think I will be better served tactically by waiting for a season. I want to push that army south this turn (probably Gascony) in hopes of taking Hohn out this year. I'll have the current A BEL in Bur after this turn, so we'll make our grab in the Fall. Copascetic? >Also, shall we order Nwy-Swe, Swe-Nwy? Nervous, eh? I have no problem with the bounce. I was going to hold in place, but if it makes you feel better... :) Cal
Message from Austria to Italy and England in
'pouchtoo':
Not much time here, but my thoughts.
1) Yes, I'll do it if necessary (<:
2) In regards to France a couple of points.
A) remember that Mars is currently Italian, not French!
B) Russia is the prime target, taking out France is not important
enough to allow English units to slide into the Med. No sneaky
end runs please (<:
C) The southern front needs the units more than the north at this
point, if France is to be destroyed, then I think Spain at a
minimum needs to go to Italy.
D) Therefore, if France is to be attacked, Pie should go to Mar
in the spring and receive support to Spa in the Fall. England
doesn't NEED the center right now, and this achieves his goal
of reducing France without any of his units sliding south and
possibly triggering our paranoid reflexes. In the spring,
England can of course try to send Mao to Por, possibly gaining
a center and leading to the destruction of France.
Gotta run.
-Dave
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
>Don't know about you, but the layoff means I'm having a hard time getting >back into the game mentally. Me too, but now I'm in PLAY mode again. >Go for the latter then and do what you want with Kiel. Remember we were >talking about whether or not we should go for Munich now or in the Fall? >Well, I think I will be better served tactically by waiting for a season. Ah. Ok. >I want to push that army south this turn (probably Gascony) in hopes of taking >Hohn out this year. I'll have the current A BEL in Bur after this turn, so >we'll make our grab in the Fall. Copascetic? Yes. (Only now I'm thinking maybe you should have build another army! Oh well, you can do that next year, since you will certainly get Mun at least.) I think that's marginally better for me, too, because when I thought through the Fall position, it didn't seem to me that your A Mun would be all that helpful in advancing my units. So I'll advance them this season, that should help me just a little. Very small bits of tactics might turn out to be pretty important in this fight, like whether I can move A War down into Gal behind Gal-Bud without Austria bouncing the War-Gal move. So I think the A Sil will support War-Gal. >>Also, shall we order Nwy-Swe, Swe-Nwy? > > >Nervous, eh?I have no problem with the bounce. I was going to hold >in place, but if it makes you feel better... :) Well, you may certainly hold it in place! Tsar J
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': >Message from [email protected] as Austria to Italy and England in >'pouchtoo': >1) Yes, I'll do it if necessary (<: Heh heh. >2) In regards to France a couple of points. > A) remember that Mars is currently Italian, not French! No problem. I'll be happy to work out any way with Manus that keeps Mars out of French hands. > B) Russia is the prime target, taking out France is not important > enough to allow English units to slide into the Med. No sneaky > end runs please (<: The moves for the rest of my units will confirm my intentions. However, I mean to take Hohn out just as as surely as you mean to throw centres to Russia if I prove false. I will be more than happy to see it's done in a manner that you two approve of, but it will be done. No English ship will go further than Spasc. > C) The southern front needs the units more than the north at this > point, if France is to be destroyed, then I think Spain at a > minimum needs to go to Italy. Given the limited front Manus currently has to fight on, I'd be inclined to disagree, but I do admit that should you make a few wrong guesses, an extra unit or two for Italy could prove quite necessary just to prop you up. I'll stay flexible on this, ok? > D) Therefore, if France is to be attacked, Pie should go to Mar > in the spring and receive support to Spa in the Fall. England > doesn't NEED the center right now, and this achieves his goal > of reducing France without any of his units sliding south and > possibly triggering our paranoid reflexes. In the spring, > England can of course try to send Mao to Por, possibly gaining > a center and leading to the destruction of France. Just so it doesn't come as a shock to anyone, I am moving F Mid-Spasc, A Bur-Gas & F Bre-Mid. If Hohn does anything but stay in Spain, he will be gone after the Fall. At best, he will be killed the following turn. After that, those three units will follow the rest of my armed forces north. Fair enough? I won't be talked out of eliminating France but don't do anything rash until you at least see where the rest of my units are heading, okay? Cal
Message from Austria to England and Italy in
'pouchtoo': I can understand and accept your desire to wipe out France. I don't really like fleets in Spa/sc and MAO, but that's more up to Manus. I think having the army in Bur involved in the German campaign, either supporting Munich or moving to Ruhr would be a lot more useful however. What about the following: Mao - Por, Bre - Mao, Pie - Mar If France sits, then both centers will fall. If he tries for MAO, then both centers fall. If he tries for Mar, then both centers fall (por s Mao - Spa/NC in the fall). If he tries for Por, then one center falls (Mar and MAO take out Spa) and the other will go the next year. This negates the need for England to go to MAO/sc, keeps the army on the German front where it is more useful, and still achieves the English goal of guaranteeing the destruction of France, thus everybody is happy (expect poor ole Hohn of course) (<:. Is this acceptable to you Cal? -Dave
Message from Italy to Austria and England in
'pouchtoo': > I can understand and accept your desire to wipe out France. I don't > really like fleets in Spa/sc and MAO, but that's more up to Manus. > I agree with Dave (not surprisingly). I didn't say so because at this point if I get attacked, Dave throws Jamie the game and so in the end it doesn't matter to me all that much. However, if there is any way to avoid such scary-looking fleets and still allow that Cal finish off Hohn, I think we'd all feel better about everything. I know I would, at least. I'm all for any such alternate plan. My fear, to lay my cards on the table, is that this move will look sufficiently anti-R, but with some fleet swings to the south thrown in there, and next move bam. Thus, Dave spends two moves not throwing the game, and this is enough to spell doom for Sitting Bull (me) and Geronimo (Dave). I don't think it's enough, and I don't think it's in Cal's plans, but there's my fear. So it's almost like we need, at this point, some big-time concrete agreement between you two on exactly what moves are acceptable each turn before the White Army is turned loose. Since I trust Dave to look out for my best interests (because he has no choice but to trust me to look out for his), I leave it to you guys to come up with this concrete agreement. I will continue to just audit the discussion as a very interested party. Make sense to everyone? Manus
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': >Message from [email protected] as Austria to England and Italy in >'pouchtoo': >What about the following: > >Mao - Por, Bre - Mao, Pie - Mar > >If France sits, then both centers will fall. If he tries for MAO, then >both centers fall. If he tries for Mar, then both centers fall (por s >Mao - Spa/NC in the fall). If he tries for Por, then one center falls >(Mar and MAO take out Spa) and the other will go the next year. > >This negates the need for England to go to MAO/sc, keeps the army on >the German front where it is more useful, and still achieves the English >goal of guaranteeing the destruction of France, thus everybody is happy >(expect poor ole Hohn of course) (<:. > >Is this acceptable to you Cal? You betcha. If Manus is willing to go for it (and his followup up letter seems to indicate he is), then this is more than acceptable to me. I can see big uses for an army in Ruhr next turn. Okay, Manus? (I'm sending in the order change now; David, I'd appreciate A Mun S A Bur-Ruh, if you please. Even if you don't please, I'm still moving there...) Cal
Message from Italy to England and Austria in
'pouchtoo': Fine by me. Godspeed to the forces out to stop the pre-commies. Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': >>I want to push that army south this turn (probably Gascony) in hopes of taking >>Hohn out this year. I'll have the current A BEL in Bur after this turn, so >>we'll make our grab in the Fall. Copascetic? > >Yes. >(Only now I'm thinking maybe you should have build another army! Oh well, >you can do that next year, since you will certainly get Mun at least.) I was thinking along those lines as well and wondering how you would take it given your current paranoia. >I think that's marginally better for me, too, because when I thought >through the Fall position, it didn't seem to me that your A Mun would be >all that helpful in advancing my units. So I'll advance them this season, >that should help me just a little. Very small bits of tactics might turn >out to be pretty important in this fight, like whether I can move A War >down into Gal behind Gal-Bud without Austria bouncing the War-Gal move. So >I think the A Sil will support War-Gal. Small tactics are especially important at this stage of the game. Little things that go wrong can often end up as stalemate lines. That shouldn't be a problem given the wide front we have here. Province by province battles can either be very satisfying (if you're gaining) or frustrating (when you KNOW you can't stop someone from that vital space). >>>Also, shall we order Nwy-Swe, Swe-Nwy? > >>Nervous, eh? I have no problem with the bounce. I was going to hold >>in place, but if it makes you feel better... :) > >Well, you may certainly hold it in place! Nah, let's stick with the bounce. I don't want you getting worried about St Pete's at the last minute. Cal
Message from England to Austria and Italy in
'pouchtoo': >Message from [email protected] as Italy to England and Austria in >'pouchtoo': > >Fine by me. Godspeed to the forces out to stop the pre-commies. 10-4, good buddy. My orders are in. Note that the move to Sweden is at Russia's insistence. Cal =========================================================================== Read http://hydaspes.if.org/~judge/ before you do anything with this judge. If you can't read it on a web browser, email me and i'll send you a copy. I guess i'll have to say it again. DO NOT CREATE ANY GAMES ON THIS JUDGE WITHOUT READING AND COMPLYING WITH THE REQUIREMENTS ON THAT PAGE. - The judge keeper. ========================================================================== :: Judge: USWI Game: Pouchtoo Variant: Standard :: Deadline: S1906M Tue Jul 14 1998 23:30:00 Movement orders for Spring of 1906. (pouchtoo.023) England: Army Burgundy -> Ruhr. England: Fleet Norway -> Sweden. England: Fleet English Channel -> Belgium. England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> Portugal. England: Fleet Brest -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean. England: Army Belgium -> Holland. England: Fleet Holland -> Helgoland Bight. England: Fleet London -> North Sea. ======================================================================
Message from Austria to England and Italy in
'pouchtoo': > >Is this acceptable to you Cal? > > > You betcha. If Manus is willing to go for it (and his followup up letter > seems to indicate he is), then this is more than acceptable to me. Gawd, I'm such a great facilitator! So why am I in this mess? Oh yeah, I tried to feed The Bear (<:. -Dave
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
> Okay, so I'll be sending Pie-Mar and dislodging you by sending TYS-ION > with support from Tun (unless you see reason to make Tunis the attacker). > > But we never decided entirely on what my lonely Roman unit will be doing; > visiting Venice for the Spring? HOLDing or protecting Naples from your > Apulia army (which I hope is convoying to Trieste instead)? > > Frankly, we need to help you as much as we can (assuming Cal keeps his > word and keeps you happy enough to put up a defense against Jamie). Meaning > that if you need Naples or Tunis by convoy, it's yours. As soon as > possible we should either land and destroy your Adriatic fleet to get you > another army build or put it into the Eastern Med (but since the possibility > of doing that is at least two years off, I vote for dislodging it ASAP to > get you another much-needed army. > > Anyway, let me know what Rome should do. > > With his life in your hands, > Manus > Frankly, my life has been rather busy lately (my house got flooded and the mold formed and is making us all sick so I'm having to have it aired and defoliated and what not. We're sleeping in a camper in the back yard right now) so I haven't mapped out my moves. Orders aren't due until next Tuesday. I'll look at things and let you know. I see no point in sending my army backwards to get a center. The fleet will just get disbanded as I'm going to lose at least one center. You army should either head for Ven or Apu (I'll be convoying out). I'll see what I come up with. Any tactical ideas would be greatly appreciated. -Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> Frankly, my life has been rather busy lately (my house got flooded and the > mold formed and is making us all sick so I'm having to have it aired and > defoliated and what not. We're sleeping in a camper in the back yard right > now) so I haven't mapped out my moves. > Understood (and good luck with all that!) > Orders aren't due until next > Tuesday. I'll look at things and let you know. > Yeah; no hurry. > You army should either head for > Ven or Apu (I'll be convoying out). > Either is fine with me. Apu is only good if I can convoy somewhere useful. Ven is only good if I can carve a path through Tyr to be of some use. Doesn't really matter which to me. > I'll see what I come up with. Any > tactical ideas would be greatly appreciated. > Well, I'll look again, but the only advice I came up with when I looked earlier was to make sure you can bleed me a little more if need be to stay strong up at the front. We have an uphill battle ahead of us. Manus
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
King Kal, >> >>Yes. >>(Only now I'm thinking maybe you should have build another army! Oh well, >>you can do that next year, since you will certainly get Mun at least.) > > >I was thinking along those lines as well and wondering how you would take it >given your current paranoia. You were thinking of doing what? Building another army next year? I would get paranoid if you had a fleet in North Sea or Nwg. :-) >>>>Also, shall we order Nwy-Swe, Swe-Nwy? >> >>>Nervous, eh? I have no problem with the bounce. I was going to hold >>>in place, but if it makes you feel better... :) >> >>Well, you may certainly hold it in place! > > >Nah, let's stick with the bounce. I don't want you getting worried about St >Pete's at the last minute. Well, my point is, as long as you know I'm ordering Swe-Nwy, you can hold in Nwy or order Nwy-Swe, either way, doesn't matter. My orders have been in for a while now. I've got a WAIT flag set, but I'm happy with the orders as they are now. But not everyone's orders are in (so says the LISTing). I'm hoping we won't really have to wait until Tuesday. Hm, yeah, it would be really nice if you could eliminate Hohn :-). At least that would get the game going a little faster. Then eliminate Manus if it's still not going fast enough. I think Dave is pretty quick. Oh what the heck, we'll eliminate him too, then we'll play a few lightning seasons! Tsar J
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, so I'll be sending Pie-Mar and dislodging you by sending TYS-ION with support from Tun (unless you see reason to make Tunis the attacker). But we never decided entirely on what my lonely Roman unit will be doing; visiting Venice for the Spring? HOLDing or protecting Naples from your Apulia army (which I hope is convoying to Trieste instead)? Frankly, we need to help you as much as we can (assuming Cal keeps his word and keeps you happy enough to put up a defense against Jamie). Meaning that if you need Naples or Tunis by convoy, it's yours. As soon as possible we should either land and destroy your Adriatic fleet to get you another army build or put it into the Eastern Med (but since the possibility of doing that is at least two years off, I vote for dislodging it ASAP to get you another much-needed army. Anyway, let me know what Rome should do. With his life in your hands, Manus
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hm. At least one player doesn't have orders in. Manus, or Hohn? Tsar J
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > > > Hm. At least one player doesn't have orders in. > > Manus, or Hohn? > > Tsar J > I know who my money'd be on... :) Cal
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Hello Manus, Well, I took a look at things, ugly aren't they (<:. I think I have my best defense pretty well mapped out, the only thing I'm undecided about is which of the following I should try: Apu - Gre, Adr Convoy Apu - Alb, Adr Convoy Apu - Tri, Adr - Gre The advantage of the first is to get the army into Gre, but it could bounce if my move out of Greece fails. The advantage of the second is that it can't bounce. The advantage of the third is that we could end up with a fleet in Gre to make a double attack on Aegean if needed and the army stays in range of Rome if I need to take the center in order to maintain the forward units. What are your thoughts? No matter which we pick I guess it is best for your army to move to Apu. -Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Well, since the Adriatic doesn't border Greece :-), by process of elimination, I will vote for option 2: > Apu - Gre, Adr Convoy > Apu - Alb, Adr Convoy > Apu - Tri, Adr - Gre Yes? Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Ouch. No wonder I'm in such bad shape (<:. That's what I get when I try to apply my poor tired brain to the problem without a map handy. I guess the question then becomes between moving the army to Alb or the fleet. The army is more flexible there as it can support to Ser as well, on the other hand, the fleet can't move to Rom or Nap to shore up the front line units. Thoughts on that? I'm heading home myself, so I'll see if you have any comments in the morning, then send in my orders. -Dave
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Okay, my orders are in. I'm dislodging you with a move out of TYS, and sending Pie-Mar and Rom-Apu. I've SET WAIT in case you want to discuss anything, but if not, let me know and I'll take the wait off. May the Dip Ghods have mercy on us. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
As we both found out, the judge was down, so I only just got your message and you only just got mine. Anyway, lucky I put a SET WAIT on because it sounds to me like maybe you're considering advising against Rom-Apu. Let me know, but at this stage, that's what I have in. Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
> I think the move to Apu is still correct. > Okay, I'll take my WAIT flag off. > The only thing I'm still trying > to decide between is the fleet to Alb with the army to Ven which has the > plus of the army being able to go to Rome if needed, or the army to Alb, > which has the plus of the army being able to support/attack Ser and that > your army could be convoyed to Alb next. Thoughts? > Kind of a six of one, half-dozen of the other proposition. I guess the way to decide it is whether we trust Cal to leave me alone enough to let you put your units in the east where they're needed. Frankly, I don't know if we can. If we can't, then he attacks me and you give everything to Jamie and we watch as someone hits 18. In this case, putting you in Venice rather than Apu is good only in that it's easier for you to give units to Jamie and for us to keep them from Cal to punish him. On the other hand, if Cal truly does see the light (and like I say, I have no idea if he truly does, but his acceptance of your alternative plan of action in the west was, to my mind, a good sign, I'm hoping), then putting you in Venice doesn't make as much sense and we would rather have the unit fighting Jamie out of the Balkans. Like I say, it's a crapshoot, with benefits both ways. Your choice, and I promise I won't complain, whichever you choose. Lotta help, aren't I? Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Thinking a little more.... I guess if I was forced to choose, I'd advise convoying the army and leaving your fleet in the ADR.
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Was that your bet?
Message from Russia to Master in 'pouchtoo':
Rick, Maybe we should shorten the deadlines. Although of course I'm not certain, I *think* that there was a long dry spell during this current phase when nobody was talking to anybody else. And Hohn is going to miss any deadline, so it may as well be short one! If any of the others really wants the full week, that's fine, naturally. I'm in no particular hurry. But this past turn seemed very slow. Jamie
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
So, since you didn't tell me where the fleets are going, I assume that means you did discover some good reason not to tell. Or did you? Also: I have a feeling that Cal might decide to eliminate Hohn if possible, just to get rid of these annoying delays. :-) Tsar J p.s. Why do the observers keep saying that I can win even against a united front? That's a dumb analysis. Do they think I have magic powers? (Heh heh heh.)
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> So, since you didn't tell me where the fleets are going, I assume that > means you did discover some good reason not to tell. Or did you? > Sorry; I spaced it. My fleet won't be helping you but it won't be hurting you. Just playing for protection against the dread Cal and Dave, I'm afraid. > I have a feeling that Cal might decide to eliminate Hohn if possible, just > to get rid of these annoying delays. :-) > That's a pretty fair guess, I'd say. > p.s. Why do the observers keep saying that I can win even against a united > front? That's a dumb analysis. Do they think I have magic powers? (Heh heh > heh.) > It is a dumb analisys, especially since it assumes something there is no evidence of. A united anything in this game would be a surprise to yours truly. Manus
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > > Was that your bet? Yup.. I'm a nickel richer. :) Cal
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
> As we both found out, the judge was down, so I only just got your message > and you only just got mine. Anyway, lucky I put a SET WAIT on because it > sounds to me like maybe you're considering advising against Rom-Apu. Let > me know, but at this stage, that's what I have in. > I think the move to Apu is still correct. The only thing I'm still trying to decide between is the fleet to Alb with the army to Ven which has the plus of the army being able to go to Rome if needed, or the army to Alb, which has the plus of the army being able to support/attack Ser and that your army could be convoyed to Alb next. Thoughts? -Dave
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
> My fleet won't be helping you but it won't be hurting >you. Just playing for protection against the dread Cal and Dave, I'm afraid. Makes sense. Just out of curiosity, are you moving to Ionian? >It is a dumb analisys, especially since it assumes something there is no >evidence of. Well, that's true too. But of course, the observers don't expect to see the sort of evidence there *would* be if there *were* such a united front, so it's not unreasonable for them to speculate that there is one. My complaint was that the analysis is dumb even on the (false) (??) hypothesis. Tsar J
Message from Russia to France in 'pouchtoo':
Dear Hohn, I'd hate for you to feel lonely and left out. Tsar J p.s. On second thought, I really really want you to feel lonely and left out, so that I can win.
Message from Italy to France in 'pouchtoo':
Sorry, Hohn, for not writing. To tell you the truth, I have no idea how long either of us are going to be around. We've been effectively cannonballed and can't even really work together much at the moment. As far as my moves go, I'm just looking to protect little old me against Cal, because I'm sure he's about to swing around under you, and push Dave out in such a way that if he wants to throw his probably dying self at Jamie, he'll have at least a chance to do it. The game looks to be shaping up as Cal+Jamie until one of them decides to throw the other one overboard. Dave, I hope, will be able to tread that fine line of giving Jamie center after center (without dying, though frankly, after what he did to me.... :-) enough to scare Cal as much as is necessary to make him break the E/R that surprised me (but not you). Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> > Just playing for protection against the dread Cal and Dave, I'm afraid. > > Makes sense. > If so, that's the first sense I've made in a while in this game. :-) > Just out of curiosity, are you moving to Ionian? > No offense, but I don't want to tell you. If your stab of Dave was an elaborate ruse, I believe you could take that information and tell him the right way to attack either Naples or Rome. Better safe than sorry, you know. Of course, I'm already is a sorry state, so I'm not sure it really matters, but whatever. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>> Just out of curiosity, are you moving to Ionian? >> >No offense, but I don't want to tell you. If your stab of Dave was an >elaborate ruse, I believe you could take that information and tell him >the right way to attack either Naples or Rome. Better safe than sorry, >you know. Oh. Hmmm. Yes, that would be a very elaborate ruse! I wonder what my motivation was for not building F Stp(nc), in that case.... Well, let's see, how about this: can you tell me whether you've given Dave any information about the movement of your fleets? Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
Persistent, aren't you? Okay, yes, one of my fleets is hitting ION. I doubt it'll make it; he's probably supporting from ADR and/or trying for one of my centers. But if he tries to run away (in which case, I would owe you one for pulling him off me before I completely died), I'll feel a lot better if my two fleets surrounded the boot instead of his. I guess I'll never know if you pass that on to him or not, even if he takes one of my poor little dots, so I suppose it doesn't matter telling you. Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
Thanks for the info. But you are hinting, not outright declaring, that you haven't given Dave any clue about that move. Is that right? I've worked out on my own what I expect Dave's moves to be. Unless I've got a completely confused idea of how he'll play this, you really have nothing to worry about. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe his plan is to try to get you out, and hang on as the Third Power in an R/E endgame. I doubt it, though. If you do make it into Ion, by the way, on this or a subsequent turn, and if at the time I have a unit available, I would be pretty happy about supporting you into Greece. Would that make our phantom alliance into a fleshy one? Buona fortuna, Tsar J p.s. I blame you personally for the delay. If you had written to Hohn, he would have been on time. Isn't that what he said? You've really got to be more responsible about these things, just out of common courtesy to the rest of us players.
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Thanks for the info. > I don't see how it can really help you, and it can only hurt me, but you're welcome. > But you are hinting, not outright declaring, that you haven't given Dave > any clue about that move. Is that right? > Well, I sent him a bunch of "told ya so! -- now get the heck out of Italy and the ION!!" mail, so maybe he knows I'm after the salt water this turn, but I won't pretend to know whether he even cares what I mail him. > I've worked out on my own what I expect Dave's moves to be. Unless I've got > a completely confused idea of how he'll play this, you really have nothing > to worry about. > Well, that makes me feel better... > Maybe I'm wrong. > ...or not. > Maybe his plan is to try to get you out, > and hang on as the Third Power in an R/E endgame. I doubt it, though. > My only hope is if both Cal and Dave give up and let me breathe. I'd be a nice little boy and sit on my hands if they would. But frankly, even if one of them decides to do that (and there's no credible evidence of even that), the chance of both of them leaving me be is virtually nil. > If you do make it into Ion, by the way, on this or a subsequent turn, and > if at the time I have a unit available, I would be pretty happy about > supporting you into Greece. Would that make our phantom alliance into a > fleshy one? > Ya sure ya betcha. If I get into ION, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't want to take Greece. > Buona fortuna, > I need it! Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
Jamie has offered me support into Greece if I get into ION on "this or a subsequent turn" He said, "if I have a unit available" but I think we can safely assume that he is headed for AEG this turn. Don't know if you want to factor this into anything or stick with what we have (you moving to EAS, which is guatranteed to get you into one or the other, so it's probably best to leave well enough alone), but thought I'd mention this. Manus
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
If we're going to put flesh on the bones of our alliance, can you tell me what Cal is up to? I have one fleet headed for WES, thinking it would bounce him, but I've gone back and forth on that one a good number of times. He's just as likely to take a stab at Portugal or Spain (south coast, I'm sure) or even convoy Belgium to Gascony. Not that being in WES would be all that bad if I'm not bounced (I always rationalize, etc., etc.) If you guys are still in it together (as you are hoping) then maybe it's not in your best interests to tell me, but perhaps you don't even know and I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Manus
Message from Italy to France in 'pouchtoo':
Hohn: BTW, I'm sending Pie-Mar, imagining it will bounce and not expecting to be able to defend that dot beyond the current turn. I expect mean stuff like a convoy of Belgium to Gascony and then of course MAO wrapping around Iberia. But if you can make any use of the fact that I'm doing Pie-Mar, more power to ya. Your fellow head on the chopping block, Manus
Message from Italy to Austria in 'pouchtoo':
So you know, here is what I'm thinking. Jamie knows that I am hitting ION, though I am being vague with him on whether it will be a supported attack or not. I am also pretty secure in the knowledge that he thinks you and I have not coordinated my move to ION. I believe he knows your best move is a forward retreat, but he is trusting the vitriol that existed between you and I to imagine that you will be trying to get the forward retreat without my knowing assistance or something, because one option for the forward retreat, of course, is Naples. Anyway, I think he is doing EAS-AEG hoping that you send ION-AEG and that you get dislodged and have no forward retreat his way. However, as I say, I am trying to be vague with him on whether my attack on ION will be supported, talking about moving to WES to bounce Cal, etc. If he believes you and I are still at odds (as I think he does), he may change his orders if he thinks I'm not supporting my attack so that HE is supporting it, in hopes you have a retreat to Naples that you will take. However, I have not told him which fleet is attacking ION and he has not asked, though only my most recent mail to him is *truly* vague on whether the attack on ION will be supported, and I have not gotten his reply to that one yet. Anyway, I believe that the most likely scenario at the end of this turn is me in ION, you in EAS, and Jamie in AEG. Though Jamie will see that you have run away from me, I will be able to claim this was just a pleasant surprise to me and that I don't care, I still want my pound of Austrian flesh. Thus, I tell him I will take him up on his offer for support into Greece. Instead, though, we send either my A Apu or (less attractive) your A Alb on a two-fleet convoy to either Syria or (if we're sure he's busy with Bulgaria and supporting my non-move into Greece) Smyrna. Comments? Manus
Message from Russia to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
>I don't see how it can really help you, and it can only hurt me, but you're >welcome. Well, it helps me figure out what Dave is most likely to do. That's why I was actually more interested in what he thinks you'll do, than in what you'll actually do. >Well, I sent him a bunch of "told ya so! -- now get the heck out of Italy and >the ION!!" mail, so maybe he knows I'm after the salt water this turn, but I >won't pretend to know whether he even cares what I mail him. Aha. That's helpful too. >My only hope is if both Cal and Dave give up and let me breathe. I'd be a >nice little boy and sit on my hands if they would. But frankly, even if one >of them decides to do that (and there's no credible evidence of even that), >the chance of both of them leaving me be is virtually nil. Yeah. I guess I agree. But even if Cal is heading for the Med., he might pause to try to eliminate Hohn. So if you pick up a couple of centers from Austria, you could be in a reasonable position at that point. >If we're going to put flesh on the bones of our alliance, >can you tell me what Cal is up to? If only I knew. I am *hoping* that he will completely leave me alone and try for the Med. As I think I've mentioned. I am afraid that is somewhat unrealistic. But if he at least spends some of his forces trying to break into the Med., I think that leaves me in ok shape, even if I lose Stp, say. I believe I've mentioned all of this already. > I have one fleet headed for >WES, thinking it would bounce him, but I've gone back and forth >on that one a good number of times. He's just as likely to take >a stab at Portugal or Spain (south coast, I'm sure) or even >convoy Belgium to Gascony. Not that being in WES would be all >that bad if I'm not bounced (I always rationalize, etc., etc.) Where else would your fleet go, anyway? TyS? Anyway, he certainly isn't giving me details of his movement. I would be very surprised, though, if he convoys Bel-Gas! Very, very surprised. For one thing, it's just not a very Cal-like move. For another, he is too frightened of me to leave himself that bare. And finally, it's not a very good move. If he wants an army in Gal, he can order Bur-Gal, Bel-Bur, and he doesn't have to tie up two fleets. >If you guys are still in it together (as you are hoping) then >maybe it's not in your best interests to tell me, but perhaps >you don't even know and I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. It can't hurt to ask, but I just have no idea what the answer is. (Would I tell you if I knew? Hmmm. I don't know. I'd be afraid you'd broadcast: "Cal, you moron, you did it again, you told Russia your secrets and he blabbed them! Now let's stop this skirmishing and everybody jump on Russia." Fortunately for me, there is no possibility of that, because he hasn't told me.) If I were playing England, I would *not* go to Wes, because I would figure it would bounce and I would not want to waste the move of the MAO fleet, since MAO is a bottleneck. Unless I thought you would be thinking I was thinking that. I guess I'd randomize, with a smallish chance of moving to Wes. Which is the approach I'm taking in planning my Austrian attack. Gee, it's a hard game, Diplomacy. But anyway, Cal rarely does what I would do in his position. So don't use me as your predictor. Tsar J
Message from Italy to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
> Well, it helps me figure out what Dave is most likely to do. That's why I > was actually more interested in what he thinks you'll do, than in what > you'll actually do. > > > ... > > Aha. That's helpful too. > Sheesh! You really know how to make a guy feel bad! Me, the guy who got hopping mad (with a smile on his face) at everyone else for helping you, only to be doing so unknowingly myself! I better shut my fat trap. You're the big bully, remember? > But even if Cal is heading for the Med., he might pause to try to eliminate > Hohn. > I agree with you that Cal is probably still on his anti-Hohn crusade. > So if you pick up a couple of centers from Austria, you could be in a > reasonable position at that point. > I suppose that's not out of the realm of possibility. > If only I knew. > I am *hoping* that he will completely leave me alone and try for the Med. > Gee, thanks. You're a great ally. :-) > Where else would your fleet go, anyway? TyS? > Well, there's NAF -- with ENG-MAO, WES is his and I'm effectively dead. And there's me giving up on any hope of stopping him and turning my full rage on Dave by hoping he's not supporting himself into Naples and that a supported attack on ION can have some success. I shouldn't even be debating things. I put orders in; now I should just wait and take it like a man. > Anyway, he certainly isn't giving me details of his movement. > Join the club. :-) > But anyway, Cal rarely does what I would do in his position. So don't use > me as your predictor. > I have no predictor. You can kind of tell that from my current situation. :-) Manus
Message from Austria to Italy in 'pouchtoo':
> Comments? > Two comments. 1) I appreciate your good game sense and pity in dealing fairly with a dirty back stabber like me (<: 2) Should you perhaps consider moving Rom - Nap instead of Apu then? That would block the retreat to Nap. We would no longer be able to do the convoy to Alb with your army, but we would still send it to Syria. Whichever you think is better is fine by me. Regards, Dave
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Zzzzzz.
Message from Russia to England in 'pouchtoo':
Hey, will you be moving the F Lon to Nth? (I'd rather you didn't, but I don't insist.)
Message from England to Russia in 'pouchtoo':
>Message from [email protected] as Russia to England in 'pouchtoo': > >Hey, will you be moving the F Lon to Nth? (I'd rather you didn't, but I >don't insist.) If you have a REAL problem with it, let me know, but I want to have a fleet there so as to keep my convoy options open. Ca va? (OK?) Cal